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Post  cyprussyd on 2013-11-07, 4:05 pm

The verdict is due but listening to the audio I would find them guilty, allow this to stand and it makes us no better than the terrorists. Having said that only the marine who fired the shot is guilty of murder, the other two lesser charges.

Judge releases Afghan 'execution' audio
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Images of the footage captured on the marine's helmet camera have been released
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  • Marine 'executed Afghan prisoner'
  • Marines in court charged with murder

A recording of a conversation between three Royal Marines as they allegedly murdered a captured Afghan insurgent has been released by a judge.
In the clip, recorded on one marine's helmet-mounted camera, a gunshot is heard, then groans from the insurgent.
The prosecution at the court martial says the shooting was in effect an execution.
The trio, Marines A, B and C, deny murdering the man while on duty in Helmand province in 2011.
Marine A is accused of shooting the man, while Marines B and C are said to have been "party to the killing".
Warning: the transcript of the exchange below contains extremely strong language.
Judge Jeff Blackett, judge advocate general, had ruled that the video capturing the incident should not be released because it could be used as propaganda by terrorists.

But he ruled that the audio could be published as the panel retired to consider the case after two weeks of evidence.
The six minutes and 24 seconds of footage shows the Royal Marine patrol stood waiting outside a field of tall crops, with an Apache helicopter audible overhead.
They can be heard swearing and complaining about their task of carrying out a "damage assessment" after the helicopter attack.
The court martial heard the insurgent had been shot at with 139 30mm anti-tank rounds but was still alive - albeit seriously injured - when discovered by the patrol.
Marines A and C are seen scouting out the field and locating the Afghan before calling the others over.
As Marine B walks towards them, the camera captures its first shot of the insurgent - lying on the ground, covered in blood. The patrol drags the man across the field and into a wooded area nearby.
The film shown to the court shows Marine A shooting the Afghan prisoner with a 9mm pistol at close range before saying: "There you are. Shuffle off this mortal coil... It's nothing you wouldn't do to us."
Prosecutors allege he then turned to his comrades and said: "Obviously this doesn't go anywhere, fellas. I just broke the Geneva Convention."
The transcript of the recording includes:
"Do you want him back in?"
"I want him back in here so I can see what I'm f*cking doing."
[Movement]
"Err, anybody want to do first aid on this idiot?"
"No"
"Nope."
"Could put one in his head if you want? Take your pick."
[Laughter]
"Not in his head because that will be f*cking obvious."
Marine A told the court martial in Bulford, Wiltshire, that he believed the man was already dead when he fired the shot.
The court heard the incident occurred after a patrol base came under attack from small arms fire from two insurgents.

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-07, 4:14 pm

Violence begets violence.
I did some very f*cked up things in Ulster.
Things I'm not proud of.
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Post  Guest on 2013-11-07, 5:31 pm

The court martial heard the insurgent had been shot at with 139 30mm anti-tank rounds but was still alive - albeit seriously injured - when discovered by the patrol
So what's the difference, don't see the helicopter crew getting pulled up on charges....



Obviously i'm a bit biased in this, as it's my old unit.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2013-11-07, 6:19 pm

commachio wrote:
The court martial heard the insurgent had been shot at with 139 30mm anti-tank rounds but was still alive - albeit seriously injured - when discovered by the patrol
So what's the difference, don't see the helicopter crew getting pulled up on  charges....



Obviously i'm a bit biased in this, as it's my old unit.
Big difference commo

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-07, 6:28 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
commachio wrote:
The court martial heard the insurgent had been shot at with 139 30mm anti-tank rounds but was still alive - albeit seriously injured - when discovered by the patrol
So what's the difference, don't see the helicopter crew getting pulled up on  charges....



Obviously i'm a bit biased in this, as it's my old unit.
Big difference commo
Aye you are correct, should have just thrown him out into the sun, and let the ants eat him.
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Post  Guest on 2013-11-07, 8:36 pm

I'm a bit disturbed it's in the public eye...

I'm not condoning it, but from the brief detail we have on the news, we don't know the context of the action.


I'm sure I read/saw that similar things went on in the Falklands in retaliation after the shooting oh 'H'. But no charges were brought - well, not publicly.



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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 10:27 am

"It's nothing you wouldn't do to us."
That sums up the whole thing for me.  You cannot put lads in a conflict situation, and ask them to act like everyday civilians.  To count this as murder, just like you would on the streets of Britain is nonsense.  You expect to walk down the streets of Britain unharmed.  In Helmand, British soldiers don't have that expectation.  And you can't expect the same reactions from them either.
Drop the case, and let them out.  Civilised war doesn't exist.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2013-11-08, 11:26 am

cuteybuns wrote:
"It's nothing you wouldn't do to us."
That sums up the whole thing for me.  You cannot put lads in a conflict situation, and ask them to act like everyday civilians.  To count this as murder, just like you would on the streets of Britain is nonsense.  You expect to walk down the streets of Britain unharmed.  In Helmand, British soldiers don't have that expectation.  And you can't expect the same reactions from them either.
Drop the case, and let them out.  Civilised war doesn't exist.
I'm afraid I do expect a higher set of standards than the Taliban live to and I suspect most servicemen also expect those standards.

For me its good to see this trial because it sends out the message that we are better than them, I also expect a guilty verdict.

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 12:43 pm

Better at what - bleeding hearts?  Win, or don't send them.
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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 12:56 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
cuteybuns wrote:
"It's nothing you wouldn't do to us."
That sums up the whole thing for me.  You cannot put lads in a conflict situation, and ask them to act like everyday civilians.  To count this as murder, just like you would on the streets of Britain is nonsense.  You expect to walk down the streets of Britain unharmed.  In Helmand, British soldiers don't have that expectation.  And you can't expect the same reactions from them either.
Drop the case, and let them out.  Civilised war doesn't exist.
I'm afraid I do expect a higher set of standards than the Taliban live to and I suspect most servicemen also expect those standards.

For me its good to see this trial because it sends out the message that we are better than them, I also expect a guilty verdict.
You expect a guilty verdict or are you hoping for one?
Try putting yourself in that situation. We might as well say, "oh well, take all the guns off the soldiers then."
The politicians drag us into wars that has f*ck all to do with Britain.
They put people in a war zone & you expect them to behave or react like rational human beings?
Do you, seriously? Like they're popping up to the local ASDA or something?

I'll tell you this bonny lad, I was milli seconds away from slotting a bairn in Belfast.
I was tail end that day & I saw a window open in the Divis flats & a rifle barrel came poking out.
At the last moment I saw a little kids face & he went, "bang bang, you soja's are dead", just before his mammy dragged him back in.
I shouted up to her, " you nearly had a dead kid there missus".
The reply I got was "aye, you Brit's are good at that, killing children."

How do you think those lads felt when they liberated the Nazi death camps in 1945?
I'll tell you how they'd have felt Syd marra.
They'd have wanted to go on a f*cking murder spree, of that I can be sure.

If these lads get done, then I'm f*cking finished with this country & I'm the most patriotic man you're ever likely to meet.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2013-11-08, 1:23 pm

I hear what you say but so far nothing I have read makes me change my view, this was not, listening to the tapes an accidental shooting it was an execution and I simply don't agree with executions.

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 1:38 pm

cyprussyd wrote:I hear what you say but so far nothing I have read makes me change my view, this was not, listening to the tapes an accidental shooting it was an execution and I simply don't agree with executions.
No, maybe not, but you're fine with roadside bombs, ICD'S & British soldiers coming back in body bags, coffins draped in the Union Jack?
I'm sorry, but we're never gonna agree on this, I'm keeping out of it from now on.
Don't want to fall out with you.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2013-11-08, 1:52 pm

Billy D wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:I hear what you say but so far nothing I have read makes me change my view, this was not, listening to the tapes an accidental shooting it was an execution and I simply don't agree with executions.
No, maybe not, but you're fine with roadside bombs, ICD'S & British soldiers coming back in body bags, coffins draped in the Union Jack?
I'm sorry, but we're never gonna agree on this, I'm keeping out of it from now on.
Don't want to fall out with you.
Dont want to fall out with anyone Billy and where exactly did I say I was fine with roadside bombs, body bags and coffins.

I have a view and its about one incident, not war, NI or anything else, just about one soldier and the actions he took. I started the OP by saying I have never served in the forces and I understand that people who have will have a differing viewpoint, are we saying I should not have mine or maybe that people who have not served or dont agree should keep quite.

My view is a very simple one and with remembrance Sunday coming up it, IMO, is a relevant one. Its my view that the people who died in the first and second world wars died so that we would be able to live to certain rules and be free to say what we believed to be right. When we start saying that this is OK, that is acceptable because its in a war zone we then are treading on dangerous ground, where does the unacceptable and start and acceptable stop.

I say again, I'm not falling out with anyone, just giving my opinion, that's all it is.

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 1:57 pm

They were wrong to kill him, he'd just been shot by a helicopter, he'd be in a right mess, they should have just left him to suffer, instead of putting him out of his misery...

Maybe some of the dogs would have sniffed him out, and then he'd become lunch, much more poetic.


TV and Audio, how are you meant to go to war with every movement be watched or taped?

Ban the press, scrap all this videoing, and let them get on with it, it'd be finished now if the shackles were taken off.


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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 2:19 pm

commachio wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
commachio wrote:
The court martial heard the insurgent had been shot at with 139 30mm anti-tank rounds but was still alive - albeit seriously injured - when discovered by the patrol
So what's the difference, don't see the helicopter crew getting pulled up on  charges....



Obviously i'm a bit biased in this, as it's my old unit.
Big difference commo
Aye you are correct, should have just thrown him out into the sun, and let the ants eat him.
Tend to agree commo, war is dirty and the soldiers are bound to be under serious pressure from all directions. I certainly don't know how I'd react if I'd ever been in their situation. I really don't think that laws drawn up by legal minds sitting around a table for however long can be applied to a soldier at war who is, after all, doing his job.
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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 2:21 pm

commachio wrote:They were wrong to kill him, he'd just been shot by a helicopter, he'd be in a right mess, they should have just left him to suffer, instead of putting him out of his misery...

Maybe some of the dogs would have sniffed him out, and then he'd become lunch, much more poetic.


TV and Audio, how are you meant to go to war with every movement be watched or taped?

Ban the press, scrap all this videoing, and let them get on with it, it'd be finished now if the shackles were taken off.


Yes, I quite agree with you.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2013-11-08, 3:18 pm

Well whatever we think Marine A found guilty and B and C not guilty.

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 5:30 pm

I hope it's appealed on the grounds that a civilian court should not have been trying a military action anyway, and that the jurors were probably unqualified to make a reasonable and fair judgement.

I'd like to see the whole thing quashed, and this sort of court action never allowed again.  There are military courts to handle this sort of thing.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2013-11-08, 5:34 pm

cuteybuns wrote:I hope it's appealed on the grounds that a civilian court should not have been trying a military action anyway, and that the jurors were probably unqualified to make a reasonable and fair judgement.

I'd like to see the whole thing quashed, and this sort of court action never allowed again.  There are military courts to handle this sort of thing.
My understanding is it was a military court martial.



A Royal Marine has been convicted of murder for the battlefield execution of an injured Afghan insurgent.

A court martial board found the commando, known only as Marine A, guilty of murdering the man in Helmand Province more than two years ago. Two others, known as Marines B and C, were acquitted.

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 6:24 pm

Fair enough.  But I regret that even the Courts Martial have submitted to do-goodie trash.  If you went back to WW1 or WW11, there must have been thousands of cases where the 'men who fought for our right to free speach' were guilty of the same type of thing.

Common Sense, RIP.  Highly regrettable.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2013-11-08, 6:32 pm

Everyone is entitled to an opinion Cutey and I'm sorry that those who think what this soldier did was wrong are seen as goody goody trash.

But I have given my opinion and say again, thats all it is, my opinion and I respect those who differ.

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 6:58 pm

cyprussyd wrote:Everyone is entitled to an opinion Cutey and I'm sorry that those who think what this soldier did was wrong are seen as goody goody trash.

But I have given my opinion and say again, thats all it is, my opinion and I respect those who differ.
I wasn't criticizing you, Syd.  But I do very much despise the system that allowed this trial to happen.  There was a time when the Admiralty would have summoned a captain and told him 'There's some little inconvenience out in the Yangtse River.  Pop off and sort it, will you, old chap?'  And that was the last you'd have heard of it.  His methods would never be questioned - just sort it, end of.

I regret the passing of that.  If we want these fellers to do a job for us, don't tie their hands bahind their back.
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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 7:18 pm

Well, looks like Syd has got his wish then, no doubt he'll be feeling the same about the Bloody Sunday trial.

This country is f*cked.

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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 8:26 pm

Good vid, Billy.  And yes, I agree that this country is f*cked.  I think back to the guys who defended Rorke's Drift, to the 600-odd at Balaklava, to the Sutherland Highlanders who stormed Lucknow, to the Heart of Midlothian players, eight of whom died on the Somme, to the merchant seamen who took supplies to Murmansk in WW11. And I wonder what the hell they would have made of this society.

I'd hate to meet those guys - and have to explain what a do=goodie "war-crime" was in 2013.  Ok, I could understand it when 11m jewish and gypsy civilians were executed.  But when one soldier shoots another one soldier, and it's counted as 'a crime', I just wonder where the hell we are going.  I must say, if I was a younger man, I'd get to hell out of this place.  I have no further interest nor faith in it whatsoever.
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Post  Guest on 2013-11-08, 10:28 pm

cuteybuns wrote:Good vid, Billy.  And yes, I agree that this country is f*cked.  I think back to the guys who defended Rorke's Drift, to the 600-odd at Balaklava, to the Sutherland Highlanders who stormed Lucknow, to the Heart of Midlothian players, eight of whom died on the Somme, to the merchant seamen who took supplies to Murmansk in WW11. And I wonder what the hell they would have made of this society.

I'd hate to meet those guys - and have to explain what a do=goodie "war-crime" was in 2013.  Ok, I could understand it when 11m jewish and gypsy civilians were executed.  But when one soldier shoots another one soldier, and it's counted as 'a crime', I just wonder where the hell we are going.  I must say, if I was a younger man, I'd get to hell out of this place.  I have no further interest nor faith in it whatsoever.
Correct, 42 Commando lost 7 men on that tour & where was it reported?
On page 17 in 4 sentences of the twatting Daily Star or some equally shit rag while Jordan has her tits out on the front page.
1 Afghan insurgent gets slotted by a Marine & it's like major, national news, classed as a war crime.
Well that's ok then, I assume we'll be doing the same to pursue those bastards responsible for the 450 British deaths over there?
Like f*ck we will.
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