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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-27, 8:43 pm

maghater wrote:Couple of points I would like to pick up that have been made in this three. Firstly government borrowing under the Tories 2010 onward. When a government makes a budget, they extrapolate spending forward over decent wedge of time, this would cover things lie NHS, education, defence, social spending etc. Any incoming government is then committed to honouring these spending commitments. Sadly by 2010 the recession was biting deeply tax revenues were on the floor, and the only way to keep these commitments was to borrow.Anyone remember Liam Byrnes note that Cameron paraded up and down the country apologising for Labour leaving no money. This leads nicely onto the second point, "the nasty Tory austerity". As posters have ridiculed the Tory borrowing, it therefor appears strange to object to austerity. The only ways to reduce borrowing, are to increase tax, or cut back on spending. Increasing taxation in a recession is counterproductive as it disincentivates workers, and retards business developments, this leaves cuts, which although unpopular have brought borrowing under some kind of control.
Manifesto rhetoric over reality for me.  What cannot be hidden however is the reality of how peoples way of life through public services is impacted,  The economy may drive the decision making but living with a controlled debt has always been the way and in itself is an austerity.  We are living in the hope that trickle down economics can just run a little faster.
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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-28, 11:07 am

Well its getting nearer to polling day, what is your guess at the outcome. I say tory majority of 15-25.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-28, 5:11 pm

wanderer wrote:Well its getting nearer to polling day, what is your guess at the outcome. I say tory majority of 15-25.
It's looking like a Tory majority but I still live in hope, there are so many unknowns in this election.

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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-28, 5:23 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
wanderer wrote:Well its getting nearer to polling day, what is your guess at the outcome. I say tory majority of 15-25.
It's looking like a Tory majority but I still live in hope, there are so many unknowns in this election.
Live dangerous, make a prediction.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-28, 5:42 pm

wanderer wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
wanderer wrote:Well its getting nearer to polling day, what is your guess at the outcome. I say tory majority of 15-25.
It's looking like a Tory majority but I still live in hope, there are so many unknowns in this election.
Live dangerous, make a prediction.
hung parliament leading to labour/SNP working together.
Latest poll giving 69 majority to Boris could be the kick up the arse labour and their voters need

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Post  Gordon Armstrong on 2019-11-28, 7:03 pm

I don't know how much a majority Boris needs, I just hope that he gets it to avoid the disaster of the tramp governing the country Neutral
To me, though, it's looking like a hung parliament . . . . please no, 'cos we'd never get what we 'the people' democratically voted for nearly four years ago  Crying or Very sad
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-28, 11:21 pm

Gordon Armstrong wrote:I don't know how much a majority Boris needs, I just hope that he gets it to avoid the disaster of the tramp governing the country Neutral
To me, though, it's looking like a hung parliament . . . . please no, 'cos we'd never get what we 'the people' democratically voted for nearly four years ago  Crying or Very sad
No idea who the tramp is and you say we the people but I voted out but not at any cost so maybe you meant I not we

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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-28, 11:52 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
Gordon Armstrong wrote:I don't know how much a majority Boris needs, I just hope that he gets it to avoid the disaster of the tramp governing the country Neutral
To me, though, it's looking like a hung parliament . . . . please no, 'cos we'd never get what we 'the people' democratically voted for nearly four years ago  Crying or Very sad
No idea who the tramp is and you say we the people but I voted out but not at any cost so maybe you meant I not we
Which brings us back to how the information on the whys, wherefores and what impact leaving could cost.  I have said previously about the information being hijacked by outside interests, namely American high finance, and Russian political meddling, not forgetting the lies that were peddled by Boris and Farage. 

I would be concentrating on domestic matters and would hope a second referendum would take place under clearer circumstances.
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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-29, 8:51 am

Nostalgic wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
Gordon Armstrong wrote:I don't know how much a majority Boris needs, I just hope that he gets it to avoid the disaster of the tramp governing the country Neutral
To me, though, it's looking like a hung parliament . . . . please no, 'cos we'd never get what we 'the people' democratically voted for nearly four years ago  Crying or Very sad
No idea who the tramp is and you say we the people but I voted out but not at any cost so maybe you meant I not we
Which brings us back to how the information on the whys, wherefores and what impact leaving could cost.  I have said previously about the information being hijacked by outside interests, namely American high finance, and Russian political meddling, not forgetting the lies that were peddled by Boris and Farage. 

I would be concentrating on domestic matters and would hope a second referendum would take place under clearer circumstances.
Have you not yet realised that the general election is for the future of Britain and the folk who live here. You talk of outside interests, well as you no longer live here you are an outside interest. And you say concentrate on domestic matters, well to you domestic matters are of Kiwi not Britain.
And finally if the people vote for a tory government will the others want a new election because they didn't like the first result.
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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-29, 6:55 pm

wanderer wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
Gordon Armstrong wrote:I don't know how much a majority Boris needs, I just hope that he gets it to avoid the disaster of the tramp governing the country Neutral
To me, though, it's looking like a hung parliament . . . . please no, 'cos we'd never get what we 'the people' democratically voted for nearly four years ago  Crying or Very sad
No idea who the tramp is and you say we the people but I voted out but not at any cost so maybe you meant I not we
Which brings us back to how the information on the whys, wherefores and what impact leaving could cost.  I have said previously about the information being hijacked by outside interests, namely American high finance, and Russian political meddling, not forgetting the lies that were peddled by Boris and Farage. 

I would be concentrating on domestic matters and would hope a second referendum would take place under clearer circumstances.
Have you not yet realised that the general election is for the future of Britain and the folk who live here. You talk of outside interests, well as you no longer live here you are an outside interest. And you say concentrate on domestic matters, well to you domestic matters are of Kiwi not Britain.
And finally if the people vote for a tory government will the others want a new election because they didn't like the first result.
I am well aware of not being qualified to vote and you are repeating yourself and being too simplistic. Think it through:  Boris rode in on a storm of deadlines and hard brexits no matter what the consequences and could not get it past his party in the Commons where he was desstroyed.The EU is still open to negotiation about Article 50 but on balanced terms still giving UK the opportunity to avoid leaving the trading system and possibly tariffs.  Giving Johnson free rein with a huge majority will affect any future vote on brexit leading to an even more diminished life style for working or unemployed people.  

Finally, think again about the hedge fund controller (USA) who has never revealed his plans or explained why he bankrolled Farage, and Putin who sees an opportunity to disrupt or even splinter the EU,  and what their benefits.  Johnson is not publishing the Russian report before the election despite it being ready for weeks.
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Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-11-29, 10:56 pm

Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
Gordon Armstrong wrote:I don't know how much a majority Boris needs, I just hope that he gets it to avoid the disaster of the tramp governing the country Neutral
To me, though, it's looking like a hung parliament . . . . please no, 'cos we'd never get what we 'the people' democratically voted for nearly four years ago  Crying or Very sad
No idea who the tramp is and you say we the people but I voted out but not at any cost so maybe you meant I not we
Which brings us back to how the information on the whys, wherefores and what impact leaving could cost.  I have said previously about the information being hijacked by outside interests, namely American high finance, and Russian political meddling, not forgetting the lies that were peddled by Boris and Farage. 

I would be concentrating on domestic matters and would hope a second referendum would take place under clearer circumstances.
Have you not yet realised that the general election is for the future of Britain and the folk who live here. You talk of outside interests, well as you no longer live here you are an outside interest. And you say concentrate on domestic matters, well to you domestic matters are of Kiwi not Britain.
And finally if the people vote for a tory government will the others want a new election because they didn't like the first result.
I am well aware of not being qualified to vote and you are repeating yourself and being too simplistic. Think it through:  Boris rode in on a storm of deadlines and hard brexits no matter what the consequences and could not get it past his party in the Commons where he was desstroyed.The EU is still open to negotiation about Article 50 but on balanced terms still giving UK the opportunity to avoid leaving the trading system and possibly tariffs.  Giving Johnson free rein with a huge majority will affect any future vote on brexit leading to an even more diminished life style for working or unemployed people.  

Finally, think again about the hedge fund controller (USA) who has never revealed his plans or explained why he bankrolled Farage, and Putin who sees an opportunity to disrupt or even splinter the EU,  and what their benefits.  Johnson is not publishing the Russian report before the election despite it being ready for weeks.
Wanderer, your comments appear to put it politely, are rather condescending towards anothers opinion whom you know little about. While he may no longer be residing within the UK, from comments posted over a number of years he obviously has a large network of friends & family whom do which he corresponds with on a regular basis, so I feel his opinion is as much relevant as yours. 

Nos, To me respect is earnt, you have mine and are well placed to orate on such subjects in my humble opinion.

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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-30, 1:51 am

Black Cat Kiwi wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
Gordon Armstrong wrote:I don't know how much a majority Boris needs, I just hope that he gets it to avoid the disaster of the tramp governing the country Neutral
To me, though, it's looking like a hung parliament . . . . please no, 'cos we'd never get what we 'the people' democratically voted for nearly four years ago  Crying or Very sad
No idea who the tramp is and you say we the people but I voted out but not at any cost so maybe you meant I not we
Which brings us back to how the information on the whys, wherefores and what impact leaving could cost.  I have said previously about the information being hijacked by outside interests, namely American high finance, and Russian political meddling, not forgetting the lies that were peddled by Boris and Farage. 

I would be concentrating on domestic matters and would hope a second referendum would take place under clearer circumstances.
Have you not yet realised that the general election is for the future of Britain and the folk who live here. You talk of outside interests, well as you no longer live here you are an outside interest. And you say concentrate on domestic matters, well to you domestic matters are of Kiwi not Britain.
And finally if the people vote for a tory government will the others want a new election because they didn't like the first result.
I am well aware of not being qualified to vote and you are repeating yourself and being too simplistic. Think it through:  Boris rode in on a storm of deadlines and hard brexits no matter what the consequences and could not get it past his party in the Commons where he was desstroyed.The EU is still open to negotiation about Article 50 but on balanced terms still giving UK the opportunity to avoid leaving the trading system and possibly tariffs.  Giving Johnson free rein with a huge majority will affect any future vote on brexit leading to an even more diminished life style for working or unemployed people.  

Finally, think again about the hedge fund controller (USA) who has never revealed his plans or explained why he bankrolled Farage, and Putin who sees an opportunity to disrupt or even splinter the EU,  and what their benefits.  Johnson is not publishing the Russian report before the election despite it being ready for weeks.
Wanderer, your comments appear to put it politely, are rather condescending towards anothers opinion whom you know little about. While he may no longer be residing within the UK, from comments posted over a number of years he obviously has a large network of friends & family whom do which he corresponds with on a regular basis, so I feel his opinion is as much relevant as yours. 

Nos, To me respect is earnt, you have mine and are well placed to orate on such subjects in my humble opinion.
Thanks for the endorsement Kiwi and I am flattered by it.  I have had no desire to be divisive or seen as interfering but the UK my grandchildren and great grandchildren will inherit is what I fear, possibly through some jiggery pokery that no one will understand for a few years yet.

Among the older people I do know who could suffer are three heavy plant fitters in their late fifties and who can only get work in Holland via an agency.  They fear that losing the right to reciprocal treatments, which is safe whilst in the EU, will disappear and  they will their incomes. To vote in a government that just takes us out of the EU because they are all pissed off with MPs behaviour about is just plain daft.

I could sit back and let it all go on but some of the claims I have read and heard why people want to leave are so uninformed and straight from newspapers, or tainted narratives spouted by leavers from the beginning.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-30, 8:22 am

This is probably one of the saddest threads we have had on here and shows warts and all the divide our country suffers, personally I cant say I am bothered where a poster has chosen to live all have an equal right to an opinion.

But we are a broken country and have been for many years, BREXIT just gives everyone the excuse to show how broken. Strong opinions become a cause to fight for and heated debate can quickly have that edge to it that takes debate into a nasty place. We are seeing it acted out on a daily basis by our political leaders and I cant see the election result, whatever it is, improving things on BREXIT.

Personally I cant say I am bothered about BREXIT in the election, I am a leaver who would probably vote remain if we had a second referendum but it is the domestic issues I will be voting on not BREXIT.

Only Tory and Labour count for me because our next PM will be Johnson or Corbyn like it or not. I am not a Corbyn hater but if I was I would still be voting Labour, not because my dad did or because I am a Labour member but because I dread one minute more of a Tory government and the unequal, unfair and uncaring society we have.

Democracy says we voted leave so we must leave, common sense and the anger I see tells me that finding a way to bring people together is far more important.

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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-30, 5:32 pm

cyprussyd wrote:This is probably one of the saddest threads we have had on here and shows warts and all the divide our country suffers, personally I cant say I am bothered where a poster has chosen to live all have an equal right to an opinion.

But we are a broken country and have been for many years, BREXIT just gives everyone the excuse to show how broken. Strong opinions become a cause to fight for and heated debate can quickly have that edge to it that takes debate into a nasty place. We are seeing it acted out on a daily basis by our political leaders and I cant see the election result, whatever it is, improving things on BREXIT.

Personally I cant say I am bothered about BREXIT in the election, I am a leaver who would probably vote remain if we had a second referendum but it is the domestic issues I will be voting on not BREXIT.

Only Tory and Labour count for me because our next PM will be Johnson or Corbyn like it or not. I am not a Corbyn hater but if I was I would still be voting Labour, not because my dad did or because I am a Labour member but because I dread one minute more of a Tory government and the unequal, unfair and uncaring society we have.

Democracy says we voted leave so we must leave, common sense and the anger I see tells me that finding a way to bring people together is far more important.
kiss kiss kiss
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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-30, 7:10 pm

Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
Gordon Armstrong wrote:I don't know how much a majority Boris needs, I just hope that he gets it to avoid the disaster of the tramp governing the country Neutral
To me, though, it's looking like a hung parliament . . . . please no, 'cos we'd never get what we 'the people' democratically voted for nearly four years ago  Crying or Very sad
No idea who the tramp is and you say we the people but I voted out but not at any cost so maybe you meant I not we
Which brings us back to how the information on the whys, wherefores and what impact leaving could cost.  I have said previously about the information being hijacked by outside interests, namely American high finance, and Russian political meddling, not forgetting the lies that were peddled by Boris and Farage. 

I would be concentrating on domestic matters and would hope a second referendum would take place under clearer circumstances.
Have you not yet realised that the general election is for the future of Britain and the folk who live here. You talk of outside interests, well as you no longer live here you are an outside interest. And you say concentrate on domestic matters, well to you domestic matters are of Kiwi not Britain.
And finally if the people vote for a tory government will the others want a new election because they didn't like the first result.
I am well aware of not being qualified to vote and you are repeating yourself and being too simplistic. Think it through:  Boris rode in on a storm of deadlines and hard brexits no matter what the consequences and could not get it past his party in the Commons where he was desstroyed.The EU is still open to negotiation about Article 50 but on balanced terms still giving UK the opportunity to avoid leaving the trading system and possibly tariffs.  Giving Johnson free rein with a huge majority will affect any future vote on brexit leading to an even more diminished life style for working or unemployed people.  

Finally, think again about the hedge fund controller (USA) who has never revealed his plans or explained why he bankrolled Farage, and Putin who sees an opportunity to disrupt or even splinter the EU,  and what their benefits.  Johnson is not publishing the Russian report before the election despite it being ready for weeks.
I think it is time to put an end to our little disagreement as there is no chance of our agreeing. So my parting is this, I think that the day you deserted this country you lost the right to speak on my future and the future of this country. And I believe many millions will agree with me on this. Now please feel free to give your word on this, as I don't want to deny you the final word.
I hope this doesn't insult your comprehension attitude or social intelligence, I have tried to be as simplistic as I can.
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Post  wanderer on 2019-12-05, 9:30 am

cyprussyd wrote:
wanderer wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
wanderer wrote:Well its getting nearer to polling day, what is your guess at the outcome. I say tory majority of 15-25.
It's looking like a Tory majority but I still live in hope, there are so many unknowns in this election.
Live dangerous, make a prediction.
hung parliament leading to labour/SNP working together.
Latest poll giving 69 majority to Boris could be the kick up the arse labour and their voters need
I really can't think of anything worse, Krankie holding us to ransom.
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Post  wanderer on 2019-12-09, 8:40 am

Soon be Friday and let the temperature rise Laughing
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-12-09, 9:04 am

I have always been a political junkie but this is the most nervous I can remember feeling.

A Tory win fills me with dread, a Tory majority for me is the death of any hope of fairness for so many.

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Post  wanderer on 2019-12-09, 10:54 am

What I want from this GE is someone to get us out of the EU, it looks to me like Labours idea of Brexit is akin to a couple getting divorced but continuing to live in the same house. I would really like a Farage type exit, but that isn't going to happen. So for me it will have to be the tories.
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Post  trouble_n_stripes on 2019-12-09, 3:38 pm

Now living overseas I don't get the option to vote, but Labour would have a decent chance if they had a leader other than Corbyn.
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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-12-09, 5:52 pm

For me Corbyn has been targeted by the right wing press and they have never allowed him any leeway about his history.  If we leave the EU, no matter how, we are mugs.

Worst of all though I find that a lack of empathy between people at our level has disappeared.  One thing that held us working class people together was that we were all in the same boat and rowed together most of the time.  People have got lost in personality politics and are determined to stick by what fits their agenda for a variety of reasons rather than looking at the bigger long term picture.
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Post  maghater on 2019-12-10, 9:11 am

trouble_n_stripes wrote:Now living overseas I don't get the option to vote, but Labour would have a decent chance if they had a leader other than Corbyn.
Yes I will be voting Tory, but imho the electoral system needs completely overhauling, we have a choice between a poor PM and a leader of the opposition who is that bad his own MPs backed a vote of no confidence in him by quite a sizeable majority. The country is crying out for a new kind of centrist party, but with the first past the post system we have, its impossible to bet a new political party established. New Labour hit the spot for quite a large chunk of the electorate, until they started throwing our money around like confetti at a Mayday wedding, instead of learning from their mistakes, they abandoned ship and lurched so far to the left they are unelectable, and heading for a fourth consecutive election defeat.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-12-10, 9:28 am

maghater wrote:
trouble_n_stripes wrote:Now living overseas I don't get the option to vote, but Labour would have a decent chance if they had a leader other than Corbyn.
Yes I will be voting Tory, but imho the electoral system needs completely overhauling, we have a choice between a poor PM and a leader of the opposition who is that bad his own MPs backed a vote of no confidence in him by quite a sizeable majority. The country is crying out for a new kind of centrist party, but with the first past the post system we have, its impossible to bet a new political party established. New Labour hit the spot for quite a large chunk of the electorate, until they started throwing our money around like confetti at a Mayday wedding, instead of learning from their mistakes, they abandoned ship and lurched so far to the left they are unelectable, and heading for a fourth consecutive election defeat.
I will be proudly voting Labour because of Corbyn.


I am not a member of any party and had all but given up with a choice of Tory or what I saw as Tory light under Blair.

Corbyn is that new way, a fair way, a just way and that vote of no confidence by his MP's, how many did he lose by?

I hope and pray that come Friday we have a new Labour Government for the sake of the many who need it.

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Post  canary-dave on 2019-12-10, 10:35 am

cyprussyd wrote:
maghater wrote:
trouble_n_stripes wrote:Now living overseas I don't get the option to vote, but Labour would have a decent chance if they had a leader other than Corbyn.
Yes I will be voting Tory, but imho the electoral system needs completely overhauling, we have a choice between a poor PM and a leader of the opposition who is that bad his own MPs backed a vote of no confidence in him by quite a sizeable majority. The country is crying out for a new kind of centrist party, but with the first past the post system we have, its impossible to bet a new political party established. New Labour hit the spot for quite a large chunk of the electorate, until they started throwing our money around like confetti at a Mayday wedding, instead of learning from their mistakes, they abandoned ship and lurched so far to the left they are unelectable, and heading for a fourth consecutive election defeat.
I will be proudly voting Labour because of Corbyn.


I am not a member of any party and had all but given up with a choice of Tory or what I saw as Tory light under Blair.

Corbyn is that new way, a fair way, a just way and that vote of no confidence by his MP's, how many did he lose by?

I hope and pray that come Friday we have a new Labour Government for the sake of the many who need it.
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Post  wanderer on 2019-12-11, 8:53 am

AT SOME POINT TOMORROW I WILL BE AT THE POLLING STATION PUTTING MY X BESIDE MR J. cheers
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