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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-06-29, 2:00 pm

A strange and probably inappropriate title for this post but it sort have came into my head when thinking of the posts subject.

But what is that subject, well a bit of a mish mash really about how our lifes experiences colour our judgment and views on many things and it all started with football.

Why is it that some hate their local rivals while others enjoy the banter but never join in the hatred. Well lets look at two fans, the one born, bred and raised in either city, Newcastle or Sunderland. A fan who probably has never lived more than a few miles from where he was born. This fan has always been surrounded by like minded fans, not many Sunderland fans in Newcastle or Newcastle fans in Sunderland. These fans only have experience of the city, culture and mindset of their city and see the other city as their rival, never their friend.

Then you get me and many like me, my community has always been a diverse gathering, the village I grew up in, the village I now live in, I will come back to the travels. Fans of Newcastle, Boro, Darlington and Hartlepool have always been friends, family and neighbours first and football fans second. That has meant a more diverse view of them all, its hard to hate someone who you like, share life with, you see the person first, warts and all and club allegiance second.

This also applies, IMO to our views of the wider world. I have never been to the states and indeed my time outside the UK is restricted to 1 or 2 week holidays, normal a very tainted and false view of the people and their values. So my view of lets say the USA is formed by films, TV shows and the news, a very restricted view. There is nothing wrong with that provided I can accept it is a restricted view.

In the UK I have a more informed view, I have traveled to most parts of England Scotland and Wales for work, mixed with, worked with and lived with the people of England, Scotland and Wales, and in the main found good people who speak with a different accent, have view's on politics and life but in the main want what we all want, a decent life and home and to look after their families.

Again just my view but most of the hatred and intolerance comes from ignorance of the people we hate or are intolerant of. We in many cases judge from what we see of the more extreme parts of society. I will use the IRA, hated by many and understandably so, they kill and maim. But many years ago I worked and became very good friends with a man who lived in the north east but was from Belfast, a strong IRA supporter. Not a supporter of the bomb or bullet but a supporter of a united Ireland. He did not change my view of the IRA extremest but he did change my view on the IRA objective. Not everything is black and white, there are lots of grey areas.

This post has become one of my rambles but hopefully there is something in their worthy of comment.

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Post  canary-dave on 2019-06-29, 3:05 pm

I have a good friend who takes me shopping each week, he used to be a reporter with one of the top agencies. 

He always calls the IRA freedom fighters, he disagrees with the bombings and maimings but accepts that they were fighting for a genuine cause  like

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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-07-01, 9:46 am

A thought provoking post for a morning - sorry I have had visitors all weekend so not had a chance to log in for a couple of days.

It is part of the human psyche to be wary of 'others' - this has not yet evolved out of humanity from when we were living in caves and small tribes - and yet even then there was an understanding that mixing with others was required (for a healthy gene pool if nothing else) to ensure the survival of the tribe - this is where large gatherings and festivals started.

So football support is a sort of tribalism, but as Syd says most of us will know 'others' and most of them will be 'all right for a Mag' etc. It is easy for us to admit 'others' are just like us when we have met individuals - what we still find difficult is applying that to the 'tribe'.

But balancing the needs of different ideologies is sometimes not possible and hate and conflict arises where one tribe feels the other is being favoured more. Diplomats who can persuade and come up with acceptable compromises are worth their weight in gold in such cases - and this means we need people able to listen and speak to both sides and not be demonised for doing so. For instance: Thatcher praises Mugabe and Blair meets Gaddafi and that makes them statesmanlike, yet Corbyn speaks to Hamas and the IRA and that makes him a terrorist?

Maybe in a 100,000 years, if humanity still exists (which I doubt) our fear of the other will have evolved out of us. But what we can do in the meantime is educate our children, and ourselves, and ensure our governments legislate so that everyone is treated as part of the human race - with the same human needs as all of us. Once this happens around the world, discrimination and prejudice against disabled people, other races, religion, gender, sexual orientation and any other difference you can think of will disappear - then there will be no need for terrorists or freedom fighters.

But we need better leaders first - and that is why I think humanity will cease to exist long before my dream of a peaceful world comes true. Leaders always come from the tribes with power and resources, and as we have seen here in the UK in last 30 years at least, they also ensure the media is in their pockets, to spread their lies and propaganda.

One small piece of evidence of this is in this article I read a couple of days ago - showing that since 2010 BBC Question Time had NEVER had a Pro-EU MEP on the panel while Farage had appeared 23 times alone (out of 50 - with all others being UKIP, Brexit Party of one Conservative brexiteer!) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yet the BBC rebuffs all claims of bias.

Yes humanity has a long way to go when I see the likes of Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un meeting and making lovey dovey when both of these spoiled brat, man-children, with no impulse control, have the power of several suns at their finger tips, certainly enough to wipe all life off this fragile planet.

These are who we should be most afraid: Putin, Trump, Kim Jong-un and others, but I also put Farage and Johnson in that group. They do not care about humanity, they don't even care about their own tribes, they care about themselves, and no one else. And that is the biggest worry of all.

A bit of a ramble for me too - and slightly depressed myself Sad
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Post  oxfordshire on 2019-07-03, 1:01 am

Very good H. Excellent . The only thought I add is that these leaders need a world where they can grandstand in and so they may huff and puff but hopefully realise that they can only do so while they still have a world left. Takes me back to Kennedy and Kruschev.
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