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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-02-20, 9:37 am

I know I am about to be torn apart here but here we go, Shamima Begum.
I fully understand the outrage at her actions and elation at the decision to take away her British citizenship, it is a natural reaction but I'm not sure it's the right one.
She is one of many who joined ISIS and supported and even killed in the name of ISIS and I'm not at all convinced that saying you cant come back to them all is the end of the matter or sends the right message.
I read how if she comes back we will give her a council house and benefits, really!
If I was an ISIS leader I would be holding a party in celebration, just think of how this will be used to show how badly the infidels treat a poor Muslim woman and her baby. At the very time that ISIS is about to be killed off we hand them a wonderful recruiting story on a plate, probably to enhance the home secretaries leadership bid.
Far better IMO to follow the legal process that puts us head and shoulders above ISIS and their idea of law.
Bring her,or at least allow her back, put her innocent baby in care, there are many people looking to adopt children and her child has done nothing wrong.
Charge her and any more who return with treason and lock them up for long prison sentences. That for me sends a message to others of the consequences of actions and puts us way above ISIS.
I doubt if many will agree but not letting her back will, IMO, only make things worse, she is still alive and free and I doubt she will shrug her shoulders and say oh well, I will find a wee flat and learn my lesson.
If the the coming months or years an innocent aid worker or journalist is beheaded by her or her mates the blood will be on our hands because we took the easy option.

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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-02-20, 9:50 am

Good thoughtful post Syd.

Many also forget she was actually a child of 15 when she went away and has been brutalised since then. Of course she will say the things she has been saying - she has been brainwashed! There are many things we need to understand about why she was radicalised in the first place. Bringiing her back and getting information out of her about how that happened is important to prevent future Shamina's. And her devastated family have already said they want to raise her child.
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Post  Vincemac on 2019-02-20, 12:29 pm

She must not be brought back 
It would be a major burden on the already depleated 
Prison service 
If given a sentence 
Just forget about her and let her remain
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Post  Gordon Armstrong on 2019-02-20, 1:07 pm

She is a firkin terrorist, she says that she has no regrets about deciding to be one (therefore people like us were/are her enemy/target), and she wants us to look after her via somewhere to live amongst us (where she could well continue her 'ways' 'cos she's already proven that she's 'got it in her') and all sorts of benefits Shocked

I can't believe that anything even remotely like this is even being considered Evil or Very Mad
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Post  canary-dave on 2019-02-20, 1:33 pm

She's now saying removing her British citizenship is unjust. 

Was it not unjust for her to go and support a group of murderous bastards who's only aim was to murder innocent people 

I hope she rots in Hell   Twisted Evil

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Post  Sid MCFC on 2019-02-20, 2:06 pm

I can understand the moral argument  for allowing her to return but trying to prove whether she has or has not been directly involved in killing innocent people etc will be damn near impossible, she hardly likely to give evidence against herself.

As for gaining intelligence re her ‘recruitment’, again will she be willing to divulge any further info that the authorities don’t already know, doubt it.

She still may have had a slight chance of gaining some sympathy from me because of her age but not a cat in hells chance now after saying she was OK with the beheadings and the Manchester Bombing was retaliation.  Fxck that.
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Post  Vincemac on 2019-02-20, 3:33 pm

15 year old 
They know there own minds 
There is people in prison at that age
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-02-20, 4:31 pm

I did say my view point would not be popular but nothing said changes it.

Its very easy and I guess expected to shout of how she should never be allowed home but she will live somewhere, some country must take responsibility and she is, like it or not our responsibility.

But some points


  1. She continues to proclaim ISIS is right, I guess if I was in a camp surrounded by ISIS members who kill without a second thought I may also say I agree with the,
  2. We cant prove she has done anything wrong, I would suggest we can prove that she betrayed our country and is therefor a traitor.
  3. She is wrong saying we can strip her of her British citizenship, well many who know about these things seem to agree with her.
  4. She was 15 so knows her own mind, in that case Adam John son and many more were wrongly convicted.

I am no supporter of her or her actions but think there are better ways of dealing with her.

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Post  Gordon Armstrong on 2019-02-22, 10:11 am

The terrorist/murderer now says that she's 'willing to change' [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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Post  oldblackcat on 2019-02-23, 6:41 am

Sorry I have no sympathy....I don't think she should be allowed back.....we need to take a hard stance against terrorists
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-02-23, 7:41 am

oldblackcat wrote:Sorry I have no sympathy....I don't think she should be allowed back.....we need to take a hard stance against terrorists
No need to be sorry OBC, one of the few good things of our country right now is the freedom of thought and speech.

I don't have sympathy for her and agree we need to come down hard on anyone who decides to act in this way but my starting point is responsibility and we she is ours.

Many say leave her to rot but the truth is she cant be left to rot, in the camp she is in she is fed and cared for, someone is picking up the bill and its a bill we should be paying,she is like it or not a British citizen.

My second point is about coming own hard, change the law on terrorism and charge her with it so that we can come down hard. People bring up cost but she is appealing and their will be a big cost in legal fees and at the end the general view seems to be she will win her appeal and return anyway so those fees will be wasted.

I understand fully the keep her out view but its about can we, international law says we cant.

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Post  gil t azell on 2019-02-23, 8:37 am

Making a mistake when your 15 is getting caught down the field getting steaming drunk on White Lightning. NOT JOINING ISIS.

Lee Rigby, 22 deaths at the Ariana Grande concert in Manchester. Any amount of reasons not to let her back.

 I hope the b*stard rots in hell.

Let her back in and I think anarchy will occur. 99% of Muslims in this country will be decent law abiding citizens but I think the the vast majority of the electorate would turn completely against them.

She joined ISIS. At that point, in my opinion, she lost whatever rights she had.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-02-23, 9:49 am

gil t azell wrote:Making a mistake when your 15 is getting caught down the field getting steaming drunk on White Lightning. NOT JOINING ISIS.

Lee Rigby, 22 deaths at the Ariana Grande concert in Manchester. Any amount of reasons not to let her back.

 I hope the b*stard rots in hell.

Let her back in and I think anarchy will occur. 99% of Muslims in this country will be decent law abiding citizens but I think the the vast majority of the electorate would turn completely against them.

She joined ISIS. At that point, in my opinion, she lost whatever rights she had.
Yes and if we just let her back without consequence it would indeed be wrong but she will not rot in hell, she will be looked after and fed by someone. So the question is by who?

Is it really right to just leave her for the Syrians and aid groups to take responsibility or should we be taking responsibility?

Like it or not she is a British citizen and under international law that makes her our responsibility, when we go ignoring international law because its inconvenient ISIS in my opinion have won.

It will be very difficult to prove in a court of law that she has committed any crime but it would be easy to prove she has committed treason so update the law, bring her back, safeguard her baby and charge her with treason.

She is the first of many that we will have to deal with so get it right with her.

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Post  gil t azell on 2019-02-23, 10:02 am

cyprussyd wrote:
gil t azell wrote:Making a mistake when your 15 is getting caught down the field getting steaming drunk on White Lightning. NOT JOINING ISIS.

Lee Rigby, 22 deaths at the Ariana Grande concert in Manchester. Any amount of reasons not to let her back.

 I hope the b*stard rots in hell.

Let her back in and I think anarchy will occur. 99% of Muslims in this country will be decent law abiding citizens but I think the the vast majority of the electorate would turn completely against them.

She joined ISIS. At that point, in my opinion, she lost whatever rights she had.
Yes and if we just let her back without consequence it would indeed be wrong but she will not rot in hell, she will be looked after and fed by someone. So the question is by who?

Is it really right to just leave her for the Syrians and aid groups to take responsibility or should we be taking responsibility?

Like it or not she is a British citizen and under international law that makes her our responsibility, when we go ignoring international law because its inconvenient ISIS in my opinion have won.

It will be very difficult to prove in a court of law that she has committed any crime but it would be easy to prove she has committed treason so update the law, bring her back, safeguard her baby and charge her with treason.

She is the first of many that we will have to deal with so get it right with her.
If its treason then the death penalty still applies. Normally commuted to life imprisonment but in this and all the others who left to join ISIS execute them.

 Funny how they are all so sorry and realise they have made a "mistake" when they are beaten and havent got the funds from the Saudi's anymore. Utter b*llocks. They havent changed they are still terrorists. She has shown in TV interviews she has no remorse. I want my children growing up in safety. Her and her ilk will prevent that.

I state once again, and I accept this is personal, I hope she rots in hell.
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Post  Lever Malone on 2019-02-24, 11:15 am

I just wonder if this lass has thought things through. If she came back to this country I am sure there are enough idiots around who would target her and make her life hell.
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Post  Guest on 2019-02-24, 11:46 am

I imagine she would be in custody for a long,  long time.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-02-24, 11:54 am

Silvers wrote:I imagine she would be in custody for a long,  long time.
That would be my bet

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Post  MrRAWhite on 2019-02-24, 12:23 pm

Silvers wrote:I imagine she would be in custody for a long,  long time.
Not a chance.. No witnesses to testify against her, so would be free to walk the streets in no time at all..

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Post  Guest on 2019-02-24, 12:56 pm

She joined an illegal terror organisation quite deliberately.
That would not go unpunished.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-02-24, 1:04 pm

Silvers wrote:She joined an illegal terror organisation quite deliberately.
That would not go unpunished.
We could not prove she committed acts of terrorism but by joying a terrorist organization she has committed treason and that carries a life sentence.


Bottom line for me is a simple one, shout let her rot in hell all people like she wont and cant be allowed to rot in hell, someone must feed and give her basic living accommodation, its our responsibility.

We may not like it but that does not change it.

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Post  Guest on 2019-02-24, 10:41 pm

Not a problem - but let Prince Phillip drive her home from the airport
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Post  Lever Malone on 2019-02-25, 12:27 am

Prince Phillip can't he's handed in his driving licence.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-02-25, 1:56 am

barmaidalex wrote:Not a problem - but let Prince Phillip drive her home from the airport
Can you imagine what he would say in his own diplomatic way.

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