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Caught in a Time Warp

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Caught in a Time Warp

Post  cyprussyd on 2014-09-23, 6:44 am

SunderMad Blog


Caught in a Time Warp

I caught a bit of Ed Balls speech to the Labour party conference yesterday and he used a phrase, one that people will say is correct but one that says to me, is our political system in a time warp, behind the times rather than simply broken?

The phrase was, “The Labour Party are the party of the working people”.

Yes Ed without doubt the Labour party was formed to represent the working man with the Tories there to represent the bosses.

I grew up in the days of the union barons v the bosses but surely we should have moved on, if we all claim we want a fair, just and EQUAL society then surely our government and political leaders should be working for the British people without any discrimination based on, well based on what exactly.

Many of the Labour party supporters I know work in middle or senior management roles with degrees. They enjoy a comfortable life style with good incomes, they are the boss at work. Now I am not knocking them or their achievements but I am saying they can no longer be pigeon holed in the old socialist way, being a boss does not mean you cant fight for social justice.

Like wise I know many low skilled working people who are Tory supporters and want to live in a capitalist society and take advantage of that society to advance their lives and income, again good on them but that does not mean they cant want social justice.

I have never sat comfortably in either camp and have always seen merits in Labour and Tory with an unease about the far right or far left of either ideology, a typical centre ground fan but, where and who provides that centre ground?

Over the coming months we will see the electioneering start in earnest and will probably see both sides retreat to their historical dogma of left and right with the long time bastions of protest, the Libdems all but wiped out as a punishment for their support of Cameron and crew. I feel a little for the Libdems who saw their chance and grabbed it with both hands, many with genuine,”For the good of the country” motives, I fear they will pay a heavy price for their decision.

Maybe what we have is what we are stuck with and we have a choice, support the workers or support the bosses but if history has taught us nothing else it has surely taught us that this us and them way always brings winners but also always brings losers, that cant be right, can it?

More importantly and to the point in having the Boss and worker fight are we not having the wrong fight, today's inequality for me is north and south rather than boss and worker.

I enjoy watching a light hearted show on BBC, Escape to the country and its a show that unintentionally highlights the problem with modern Britain for me.

We see couple after couple looking to move away from London to a country retreat, normal people, working people who have 400K plus budgets to spend on new homes in the south. 800K is not uncommon and all want to relocate to the south coast from Brighton to Cornwall.

Occasionally they want to come north, Yorkshire, Durham, Northumberland and the difference in what your budget gets you is gob-smacking.

So, how do we drag our politicians out of their time warp and into Britain 2014, well the Scottish referendum may have started doing just that with talk of de centralisation and more regional powers, but, will that remove the problem?

Polarisation annoys me because my experience is that those who live on the right or left can only ever see the bad about the other side, never the good and I honestly believe all parties have some good ideas. But sadly the Libdems have shown us that trying to be the middle ground in a system dominated by either left or right can be fatal.

UKIP have given both parties a jolt but we all know that UKIP will never be in power or anywhere near power, should they prop up either party in a hung parliament they will enjoy their 15 minutes of fame before suffering the Libdems fate.

So there we have it, our two party system of bosses and workers stuck, IMO, in times long gone.

Am I right?

Can anyone give me hope?

Will Sunderland have a good season?

3 tough ones there to answer.


A further question for our over seas contingent, is it any better where you live?

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Re: Caught in a Time Warp

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2014-09-23, 7:04 am

cyprussyd wrote:SunderMad Blog


Caught in a Time Warp

I caught a bit of Ed Balls speech to the Labour party conference yesterday and he used a phrase, one that people will say is correct but one that says to me, is our political system in a time warp, behind the times rather than simply broken?

The phrase was, “The Labour Party are the party of the working people”.

Yes Ed without doubt the Labour party was formed to represent the working man with the Tories there to represent the bosses.

I grew up in the days of the union barons v the bosses but surely we should have moved on, if we all claim we want a fair, just and EQUAL society then surely our government and political leaders should be working for the British people without any discrimination based on, well based on what exactly.

Many of the Labour party supporters I know work in middle or senior management roles with degrees. They enjoy a comfortable life style with good incomes, they are the boss at work. Now I am not knocking them or their achievements but I am saying they can no longer be pigeon holed in the old socialist way, being a boss does not mean you cant fight for social justice.

Like wise I know many low skilled working people who are Tory supporters and want to live in a capitalist society and take advantage of that society to advance their lives and income, again good on them but that does not mean they cant want social justice.

I have never sat comfortably in either camp and have always seen merits in Labour and Tory with an unease about the far right or far left of either ideology, a typical centre ground fan but, where and who provides that centre ground?

Over the coming months we will see the electioneering start in earnest and will probably see both sides retreat to their historical dogma of left and right with the long time bastions of protest, the Libdems all but wiped out as a punishment for their support of Cameron and crew. I feel a little for the Libdems who saw their chance and grabbed it with both hands, many with genuine,”For the good of the country” motives, I fear they will pay a heavy price for their decision.

Maybe what we have is what we are stuck with and we have a choice, support the workers or support the bosses but if history has taught us nothing else it has surely taught us that this us and them way always brings winners but also always brings losers, that cant be right, can it?

More importantly and to the point in having the Boss and worker fight are we not having the wrong fight, today's inequality for me is north and south rather than boss and worker.

I enjoy watching a light hearted show on BBC, Escape to the country and its a show that unintentionally highlights the problem with modern Britain for me.

We see couple after couple looking to move away from London to a country retreat, normal people, working people who have 400K plus budgets to spend on new homes in the south. 800K is not uncommon and all want to relocate to the south coast from Brighton to Cornwall.

Occasionally they want to come north, Yorkshire, Durham, Northumberland and the difference in what your budget gets you is gob-smacking.

So, how do we drag our politicians out of their time warp and into Britain 2014, well the Scottish referendum may have started doing just that with talk of de centralisation and more regional powers, but, will that remove the problem?

Polarisation annoys me because my experience is that those who live on the right or left can only ever see the bad about the other side, never the good and I honestly believe all parties have some good ideas. But sadly the Libdems have shown us that trying to be the middle ground in a system dominated by either left or right can be fatal.

UKIP have given both parties a jolt but we all know that UKIP will never be in power or anywhere near power, should they prop up either party in a hung parliament they will enjoy their 15 minutes of fame before suffering the Libdems fate.

So there we have it, our two party system of bosses and workers stuck, IMO, in times long gone.

Am I right?

Can anyone give me hope?

Will Sunderland have a good season?

3 tough ones there to answer.


A further question for our over seas contingent, is it any better where you live?

Thought provoking as always good sir.

New Zealand had it's National Election on Saturday & the ruling Government was returned with a history making majority under MMP, which replaced the Westminster one in 1996 without the need for the first time, a coalition agreement. 

Without wishing to provoke Nos or any other readers, they're a Centre-Right party which now represents for a third term, a country wishing to move forward whilst still acknowledging the need to fix past injustices. 

We hear of the gap widening between the haves & have-nots but in truth it's still a wonderful country in which to raise a family. The Labor/Green/Internet-Mana/NZ First coalition wanted to move it to the left but the people voted and we now have a majority Centre-Right Government.

The following NZ site, like the BBC, will take you to as many articles as you have time to read.

www.xtra.co.nz

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Re: Caught in a Time Warp

Post  cyprussyd on 2014-09-23, 7:26 am

You will have me packing my bags and moving over BCK.

Mond I have just watched an item on Milibands speech later today and he seems to be agreeing with me, great. Sadly it is also the majority view that he wont get power because,"He does not look like a PM", a sad state of affairs when how you look is more important than what you say.

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Re: Caught in a Time Warp

Post  Hieronymus on 2014-09-23, 11:50 am

Good blog Syd. as always you raise some good questions. 

You are right that the discussion must move on from that of "bosses" and "toffs" vs "working people"

By now you all know that I am a life long socialist, and do believe in a more fair and just society, with equal opportunities for all in education, jobs, housing and social and health care. I also believe essential infrastructure and services should be under national control and run not for profit but on behalf of the whole nation. I do not believe in penalising the most vulnerable by cutting benefits and feel the bankers have got off far too lightly for the mess they created. I want to see the House of Lords disbanded and private school charitable status removed. I am not against immigration and feel we in Britain are generous and caring to those in need, but we must do more to understand the issues caused by current immigration policy. 
I also understand that a strong economy benefits everyone, and we do need strong banks, although I would do more to regulate financial institutions and clamp down on tax avoidance schemes.  I would get rid of Trident and spend more money on personnel and intellignce for defence purposes. But I also want a greener, cleaner environment, and for our country to create less waste, and use less fossil fuels. Personally I feel nuclear energy is the only answer to meet our energy needs for the foreseeable future.

As you can see my personal manifesto differs from the Tories significantly, but also differs from Labour. I also have Green and Lib Dem policies in there. But in our current system I have to vote for one or the other main parties, so have to take the one that matches most closely. This is unsatisfactory to me and may be the reason many people say they will not vote for anyone, because 'no party speaks for me'.

But in the modern world, why does it have to be all or nothing?  I can download individual tracks from the internet and not the tracks I don't like. Why do I have to listen to the whole album, which is what voting for a mainstream party offers?

Why can the people not choose those bits of manifestos they most want to see as government policy? We could use the red button on our TV or the internet or even text on our phones. We are used to these technologies to vote for X Factor, or Strictly? Why not use them in politics? Get the parties to create their manifesto as a 'shopping list'. Have debates to explain the policies and how they would work in practice and then let the people vote. 

That is democracy in its truest definition; 'government by the people'. 

Our representative system may have suited in the past when people were not educated, and when we did not have modern communications, but it is now out of date. I do not need a MP representing me. Put the issue and potential solutions in front of me and I can think and decide for myself, and so can most people.

The Scottish Referendum engaged people like nothing before, especially the young. It showed that people care passionately about politics and how they are governed. Now, just as the Act of Union 1707 set the basis for the last 300 years of legislation, we need a new Constitutional Act to change politics in the UK for the future, and for the better. For all our sakes  Very Happy

Oh and yes, Sunderland will have a good season too  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Caught in a Time Warp

Post  cyprussyd on 2014-09-23, 1:16 pm

Hieronymus wrote:Good blog Syd. as always you raise some good questions. 

You are right that the discussion must move on from that of "bosses" and "toffs" vs "working people"

By now you all know that I am a life long socialist, and do believe in a more fair and just society, with equal opportunities for all in education, jobs, housing and social and health care. I also believe essential infrastructure and services should be under national control and run not for profit but on behalf of the whole nation. I do not believe in penalising the most vulnerable by cutting benefits and feel the bankers have got off far too lightly for the mess they created. I want to see the House of Lords disbanded and private school charitable status removed. I am not against immigration and feel we in Britain are generous and caring to those in need, but we must do more to understand the issues caused by current immigration policy. 
I also understand that a strong economy benefits everyone, and we do need strong banks, although I would do more to regulate financial institutions and clamp down on tax avoidance schemes.  I would get rid of Trident and spend more money on personnel and intellignce for defence purposes. But I also want a greener, cleaner environment, and for our country to create less waste, and use less fossil fuels. Personally I feel nuclear energy is the only answer to meet our energy needs for the foreseeable future.

As you can see my personal manifesto differs from the Tories significantly, but also differs from Labour. I also have Green and Lib Dem policies in there. But in our current system I have to vote for one or the other main parties, so have to take the one that matches most closely. This is unsatisfactory to me and may be the reason many people say they will not vote for anyone, because 'no party speaks for me'.

But in the modern world, why does it have to be all or nothing?  I can download individual tracks from the internet and not the tracks I don't like. Why do I have to listen to the whole album, which is what voting for a mainstream party offers?

Why can the people not choose those bits of manifestos they most want to see as government policy? We could use the red button on our TV or the internet or even text on our phones. We are used to these technologies to vote for X Factor, or Strictly? Why not use them in politics? Get the parties to create their manifesto as a 'shopping list'. Have debates to explain the policies and how they would work in practice and then let the people vote. 

That is democracy in its truest definition; 'government by the people'. 

Our representative system may have suited in the past when people were not educated, and when we did not have modern communications, but it is now out of date. I do not need a MP representing me. Put the issue and potential solutions in front of me and I can think and decide for myself, and so can most people.

The Scottish Referendum engaged people like nothing before, especially the young. It showed that people care passionately about politics and how they are governed. Now, just as the Act of Union 1707 set the basis for the last 300 years of legislation, we need a new Constitutional Act to change politics in the UK for the future, and for the better. For all our sakes  Very Happy

Oh and yes, Sunderland will have a good season too  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
I knew I could count on you H, excellent from start to finish.

I suppose my simplistic solution, hope was a coalition that would bring right and left together for a more middle of the road government.

Well I got one and that shot that theory to buggery  but despite all this I am for from gloom. The Scottish referendum did indeed get us talking, arguing and passions ran high north and south of the border and a 45/55 split may be a good thing, 1.6 million unhappy Scots may just keep our political classes on their toes.

Talk of devolution coming south of the border can only be a good thing even if I do worry about our leaders getting it right.

The general election will be interesting and I can see higher than normal turnout, not in the Scotland league but better than the norm.

Who will win, well it could again be to close to call.

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