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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-20, 1:29 am

What did we learn and indeed did you watch?

Being a boring old fart I watched them all.

My conclusions

Boris v Jezza
Learned nothing new a score draw for me and that IMO is good for Jezza

1 to 1 interviews
I dont trust Swinton
Sturgun what  I  expected, competent performer
Greens very good

Question time with Farage
All out war from start to finish, you either love Farage or you hate him

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Post  canary-dave on 2019-11-20, 6:13 am

I managed to stay awake for the main one but I needn't have bothered. It just showed Boris is an interuptive buffoon and Jezza is a gentleman.

I think Jezza edged it judging by the audience's laughter at some of Boris's outlandish statements  like

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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-20, 8:54 am

I watched the main event last night and to be honest was disappointed by both. As a fervent leaver I will vote for whoever I feel will get us out of the EU. And that looks like it will have to be either Tory or Brexit
Why do I want us to leave, cos I really believe the British people will put the Great back into Great Britain.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-20, 8:17 pm

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Post  gil t azell on 2019-11-20, 10:13 pm

I despise all MP's equally. I firmly believe every single one of them is in it for themselves.

Boris is a liar or alternatively not very good at the various jobs he has had. Has renaged on countless promises he has made whilst in various positions and so cannot be trusted. 

Corbyn. Waste of a good skin. If Labour had a decent leader they would be just about in power now.

Swinson (is that her name) has nice boobs and I admire her for at least being honest stating that taxes would rise. She at least had the decency to then state where the money was going for each tax rise.

I havent seen much of the Greens, Farage or any of the other parties.

Revert back to my 1st sentence. I stand by that.

Bring back the Monster Raving Loony Party is what I say. Anybody who states in their manifesto that socks will be sold in packs of threes thus preventing the odd sock problem deserves our votes.
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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-21, 12:39 am

wanderer wrote:I watched the main event last night and to be honest was disappointed by both. As a fervent leaver I will vote for whoever I feel will get us out of the EU. And that looks like it will have to be either Tory or Brexit
Why do I want us to leave, cos I really believe the British people will put the Great back into Great Britain.
I salute your patriotism but feel it is misplaced even by today's standards.

 Just a historical point that may help you change your mind.  In 1945 Winston Churchill offered a government that would restore GB to its former standard of living and glories.  Having gone through five years of war and deprivation guess why Labour who offered a more modern way of governing won by a landslide?  With a huge majority the NHS was introduced for everybody's benefit and nationalisation of major industries took place where prices could be controlled - again for the benefit of all.

Information provided by civics classes at school, grandads and father who lived through the wars and felt there was no comparison to live via the type of government as has been mentioned on here.
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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-21, 1:07 am

gil t azell wrote:I despise all MP's equally. I firmly believe every single one of them is in it for themselves.

Boris is a liar or alternatively not very good at the various jobs he has had. Has renaged on countless promises he has made whilst in various positions and so cannot be trusted. 

Corbyn. Waste of a good skin. If Labour had a decent leader they would be just about in power now.

Swinson (is that her name) has nice boobs and I admire her for at least being honest stating that taxes would rise. She at least had the decency to then state where the money was going for each tax rise.

I havent seen much of the Greens, Farage or any of the other parties.

Revert back to my 1st sentence. I stand by that.

Bring back the Monster Raving Loony Party is what I say. Anybody who states in their manifesto that socks will be sold in packs of threes thus preventing the odd sock problem deserves our votes.
Labour has a fully costed programme and has also said taxes will rise to pay for repairing the damage of 10 years of Tory Austerity. The difference is the Lib Dems would put a penny on the tax of everyone from the lowest paid upwards - while Labour will only increase tax for those who earn £80k per year or more, and will ensure that corporations like Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc pay their full tax due, like any ordinary individual has to.  Of course the Tories have failed to tell us how any of their promises would be paid for. Boris was unable today to even explain how national insurance works - because he has never had to deal with it like a normal worker would.

So if I win and am elected will you despise me as just another lying MP out for herself?

It is very easy to criticise when you are not the one willing to put your own head above the parapet. So what alternative do you propose? If the whole system is rotten how would YOU go about fixing it?
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Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-11-21, 3:04 am

wanderer wrote:I watched the main event last night and to be honest was disappointed by both. As a fervent leaver I will vote for whoever I feel will get us out of the EU. And that looks like it will have to be either Tory or Brexit
Why do I want us to leave, cos I really believe the British people will put the Great back into Great Britain.
Are you saying you want the UK broken up with no Nth Ireland.....Do you want Great Britain to still include Scotland whom might vote to leave?

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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-21, 8:25 am

Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:I watched the main event last night and to be honest was disappointed by both. As a fervent leaver I will vote for whoever I feel will get us out of the EU. And that looks like it will have to be either Tory or Brexit
Why do I want us to leave, cos I really believe the British people will put the Great back into Great Britain.
I salute your patriotism but feel it is misplaced even by today's standards.

 Just a historical point that may help you change your mind.  In 1945 Winston Churchill offered a government that would restore GB to its former standard of living and glories.  Having gone through five years of war and deprivation guess why Labour who offered a more modern way of governing won by a landslide?  With a huge majority the NHS was introduced for everybody's benefit and nationalisation of major industries took place where prices could be controlled - again for the benefit of all.

Information provided by civics classes at school, grandads and father who lived through the wars and felt there was no comparison to live via the type of government as has been mentioned on here.
Well firstly I must say how I find it hard to accept that a man who chose not to live here has the audacity to tell us that do live here what is best for us. And secondly we are deciding on the future, not what happened 60 odd years ago.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-21, 9:09 am

This for me is becoming a fascinating thread and I thank everyone for giving their honest opinion, I may not agree with everyone but it is good to see honesty.

It does show however the massive problem we have as a country with strong opinions, a total distrust of politics and politicians and the system we have, how we get back together I have no idea but somehow we must.

I know H is a freind of mine but I am always honest with her so no bulling up, just honesty. I admire and respect her decision to stand for parliament, not something I would do when you look how it takes over your life and brings only distrust and probable abuse.

My view on politicians is that most if not all go into politics to do good, I may not agree with their version of good but I do believe most have good intentions. Its power that IMO corrupts many, they become ministers and for some that's were the problems start.

Going back to H I dont know how much her and Steve have in the bank or their income but I do know they are financially secure and are not desperate for an MP's salary. I also know that they are big on family and H is very big on her love for her kids and grand kids. So my question is why is she not seeing them a lot now by being out canvassing and if she is elected she will spend many days each week away from them, I struggle to see what she gets out of it apart from knowing she is trying in her small way to look after people and improve our politics.

Of the 600 plus most are back benches so I cant say what their motives are. What I can say is that some years ago I had big problems with the DWP and getting the help Annette needed, little me against a massive government department, I was losing badly. I contacted my MP,Woods Blackman or is it Blackman Woods. She was quick to get back to me, very understanding and supportive and the problem was solved very quickly Whatever her motivation was for becoming an MP she helped me and for that bI am eternally grateful.

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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-21, 6:21 pm

wanderer wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:I watched the main event last night and to be honest was disappointed by both. As a fervent leaver I will vote for whoever I feel will get us out of the EU. And that looks like it will have to be either Tory or Brexit
Why do I want us to leave, cos I really believe the British people will put the Great back into Great Britain.
I salute your patriotism but feel it is misplaced even by today's standards.

 Just a historical point that may help you change your mind.  In 1945 Winston Churchill offered a government that would restore GB to its former standard of living and glories.  Having gone through five years of war and deprivation guess why Labour who offered a more modern way of governing won by a landslide?  With a huge majority the NHS was introduced for everybody's benefit and nationalisation of major industries took place where prices could be controlled - again for the benefit of all.

Information provided by civics classes at school, grandads and father who lived through the wars and felt there was no comparison to live via the type of government as has been mentioned on here.
Well firstly I must say how I find it hard to accept that a man who chose not to live here has the audacity to tell us that do live here what is best for us. And secondly we are deciding on the future, not what happened 60 odd years ago.
Not showing much comprehension on what I wrote and that tells something about your attitude and maybe social intelligence. The 1945 analogy was about looking to the future not rebuilding the past.  Pre-war working class people could not barely afford to go to the doctor and being offered free medical treatment and better working conditions. 

For what it is worth, my reasons for coming over here sixteen years ago were not mine but attached to family.  Moreover,  I have never regretted it for one moment, much as i did when I lived in three different European countries in my life.
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Post  gil t azell on 2019-11-21, 6:30 pm

Hieronymus wrote:
gil t azell wrote:I despise all MP's equally. I firmly believe every single one of them is in it for themselves.

Boris is a liar or alternatively not very good at the various jobs he has had. Has renaged on countless promises he has made whilst in various positions and so cannot be trusted. 

Corbyn. Waste of a good skin. If Labour had a decent leader they would be just about in power now.

Swinson (is that her name) has nice boobs and I admire her for at least being honest stating that taxes would rise. She at least had the decency to then state where the money was going for each tax rise.

I havent seen much of the Greens, Farage or any of the other parties.

Revert back to my 1st sentence. I stand by that.

Bring back the Monster Raving Loony Party is what I say. Anybody who states in their manifesto that socks will be sold in packs of threes thus preventing the odd sock problem deserves our votes.
Labour has a fully costed programme and has also said taxes will rise to pay for repairing the damage of 10 years of Tory Austerity. The difference is the Lib Dems would put a penny on the tax of everyone from the lowest paid upwards - while Labour will only increase tax for those who earn £80k per year or more, and will ensure that corporations like Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc pay their full tax due, like any ordinary individual has to.  Of course the Tories have failed to tell us how any of their promises would be paid for. Boris was unable today to even explain how national insurance works - because he has never had to deal with it like a normal worker would.

So if I win and am elected will you despise me as just another lying MP out for herself?

It is very easy to criticise when you are not the one willing to put your own head above the parapet. So what alternative do you propose? If the whole system is rotten how would YOU go about fixing it?
H despise is possibly a too strong a word but im my experience Labour normally borrow loads and loads of money and the working man has a reasonable couple of years. This money at some point has to be paid back to this imaginary bank.  The Tories get back into power and the working man suffers as they reign in the spending. 
You say fully costed. Where  is the money coming from? The corporations like Amazon, Google etc have the best legal brains money can buy. They will delay and delay paying any taxes and while all these appeals are going on who is paying their wages? Wouldnt be the taxpayer would it? Re@ the £80k+. It must be nice but I am assuming they get paid that as they are fairly intelligent responsible people. Why should they get punished more? By the way I am not having a go at any government or party on taxation as I think it must be a ballache.

I have no doubt some MP's give it their all for their constitutents but the three current Labour MP's for this city all voted against what the local electorate voted for. Basically to get out of the EU.  Surely it is an MP's job to comply with what is asked for? After all I believe it is the taxpayers who pay MP's wages.

My hatred of politicians stems from being given the referendum in the 1st place. I accept that that was the Tories however they were a democratically elected government paid to make these decisions. Did they bottle this so they could blame the public regardless of what happened in the future or did they plan this all along.
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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-21, 7:13 pm

Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:I watched the main event last night and to be honest was disappointed by both. As a fervent leaver I will vote for whoever I feel will get us out of the EU. And that looks like it will have to be either Tory or Brexit
Why do I want us to leave, cos I really believe the British people will put the Great back into Great Britain.
I salute your patriotism but feel it is misplaced even by today's standards.

 Just a historical point that may help you change your mind.  In 1945 Winston Churchill offered a government that would restore GB to its former standard of living and glories.  Having gone through five years of war and deprivation guess why Labour who offered a more modern way of governing won by a landslide?  With a huge majority the NHS was introduced for everybody's benefit and nationalisation of major industries took place where prices could be controlled - again for the benefit of all.

Information provided by civics classes at school, grandads and father who lived through the wars and felt there was no comparison to live via the type of government as has been mentioned on here.
Well firstly I must say how I find it hard to accept that a man who chose not to live here has the audacity to tell us that do live here what is best for us. And secondly we are deciding on the future, not what happened 60 odd years ago.
Not showing much comprehension on what I wrote and that tells something about your attitude and maybe social intelligence. The 1945 analogy was about looking to the future not rebuilding the past.  Pre-war working class people could not barely afford to go to the doctor and being offered free medical treatment and better working conditions. 

For what it is worth, my reasons for coming over here sixteen years ago were not mine but attached to family.  Moreover,  I have never regretted it for one moment, much as i did when I lived in three different European countries in my life.
Because I didn't go along with your history lesson, you now are attacking my comprehension, attitude and intelligence. That's nice.
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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-21, 7:51 pm

wanderer wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:
wanderer wrote:I watched the main event last night and to be honest was disappointed by both. As a fervent leaver I will vote for whoever I feel will get us out of the EU. And that looks like it will have to be either Tory or Brexit
Why do I want us to leave, cos I really believe the British people will put the Great back into Great Britain.
I salute your patriotism but feel it is misplaced even by today's standards.

 Just a historical point that may help you change your mind.  In 1945 Winston Churchill offered a government that would restore GB to its former standard of living and glories.  Having gone through five years of war and deprivation guess why Labour who offered a more modern way of governing won by a landslide?  With a huge majority the NHS was introduced for everybody's benefit and nationalisation of major industries took place where prices could be controlled - again for the benefit of all.

Information provided by civics classes at school, grandads and father who lived through the wars and felt there was no comparison to live via the type of government as has been mentioned on here.
Well firstly I must say how I find it hard to accept that a man who chose not to live here has the audacity to tell us that do live here what is best for us. And secondly we are deciding on the future, not what happened 60 odd years ago.
Not showing much comprehension on what I wrote and that tells something about your attitude and maybe social intelligence. The 1945 analogy was about looking to the future not rebuilding the past.  Pre-war working class people could not barely afford to go to the doctor and being offered free medical treatment and better working conditions. 

For what it is worth, my reasons for coming over here sixteen years ago were not mine but attached to family.  Moreover,  I have never regretted it for one moment, much as i did when I lived in three different European countries in my life.
Because I didn't go along with your history lesson, you now are attacking my comprehension, attitude and intelligence. That's nice.
Take a look at 20th century social history in UK for more.  Working man cannot change much except at the voting station, but there is a big difference between needing change to affect living conditions or just change for change's sake.
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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-22, 12:24 pm

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Easy, one is a puppet the other a muppet.


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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-22, 2:06 pm

gil t azell wrote:
Hieronymus wrote:
gil t azell wrote:I despise all MP's equally. I firmly believe every single one of them is in it for themselves.

Boris is a liar or alternatively not very good at the various jobs he has had. Has renaged on countless promises he has made whilst in various positions and so cannot be trusted. 

Corbyn. Waste of a good skin. If Labour had a decent leader they would be just about in power now.

Swinson (is that her name) has nice boobs and I admire her for at least being honest stating that taxes would rise. She at least had the decency to then state where the money was going for each tax rise.

I havent seen much of the Greens, Farage or any of the other parties.

Revert back to my 1st sentence. I stand by that.

Bring back the Monster Raving Loony Party is what I say. Anybody who states in their manifesto that socks will be sold in packs of threes thus preventing the odd sock problem deserves our votes.
Labour has a fully costed programme and has also said taxes will rise to pay for repairing the damage of 10 years of Tory Austerity. The difference is the Lib Dems would put a penny on the tax of everyone from the lowest paid upwards - while Labour will only increase tax for those who earn £80k per year or more, and will ensure that corporations like Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc pay their full tax due, like any ordinary individual has to.  Of course the Tories have failed to tell us how any of their promises would be paid for. Boris was unable today to even explain how national insurance works - because he has never had to deal with it like a normal worker would.

So if I win and am elected will you despise me as just another lying MP out for herself?

It is very easy to criticise when you are not the one willing to put your own head above the parapet. So what alternative do you propose? If the whole system is rotten how would YOU go about fixing it?
H despise is possibly a too strong a word but im my experience Labour normally borrow loads and loads of money and the working man has a reasonable couple of years. This money at some point has to be paid back to this imaginary bank.  The Tories get back into power and the working man suffers as they reign in the spending. 
You say fully costed. Where  is the money coming from? The corporations like Amazon, Google etc have the best legal brains money can buy. They will delay and delay paying any taxes and while all these appeals are going on who is paying their wages? Wouldnt be the taxpayer would it? Re@ the £80k+. It must be nice but I am assuming they get paid that as they are fairly intelligent responsible people. Why should they get punished more? By the way I am not having a go at any government or party on taxation as I think it must be a ballache.

I have no doubt some MP's give it their all for their constitutents but the three current Labour MP's for this city all voted against what the local electorate voted for. Basically to get out of the EU.  Surely it is an MP's job to comply with what is asked for? After all I believe it is the taxpayers who pay MP's wages.

My hatred of politicians stems from being given the referendum in the 1st place. I accept that that was the Tories however they were a democratically elected government paid to make these decisions. Did they bottle this so they could blame the public regardless of what happened in the future or did they plan this all along.
I am pretty sure you woudl never despise me - Gil - I  do understand what you are saying and i am hearing it a lot - people up here (and in Scotland) were taken for granted by previous Labour governments and got the kicking they perhaps deserved. But its all backfired because it's STILL the people of the North that are suffering the most. Hence for me the Brexit vote - because it wasn't the EU people were reacting against it was ALL POLITICIANS EVERYWHERE!!

But we have to go back to basics. What is a government for if not the protection and betterment of their citizens? It is my view that we serve the majority best with a Socialist approach, where the poorest and the most vulnerable are cared for, and where working families don't have to go to food banks or pay exorbitant rents to private landlords to survive.

All public services have to be paid for by someone. The Tory way is for the 95% to pay more and the rich get richer while the working class gets shafted. Food banks! Homelessness! Crippled NHS! Schools begging parents for money to buy books! Disabled people unable to get benefits! Is that honestly what you want?

You can check what people will pay under the planned Labour regime on this calculator:

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Also the Tories have borrowed more in last 10 years than Labour have In ALL Labour governments put together. Don't forget also that Labour's debt in 2010 was exacerbated by bailing out the banks after 2008 crash, or borrowing would have been even lower, after 13 years of Labour government. But no 'the people' decided that Gordon Brown could not be trusted (aided and abetted by the S*n, the Mail, Express, Times and Telegraph - with a lot of help from Sky and BBC) . So we got the coalition and this all led to the UK now being led by a sociopathic liar, Johnson!

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And also, you may not want to read this, but it is not an MPs job to ALWAYS comply with their constituents. It is an MPs duty to ensure they do the best they can for ALL their constituents - however they voted or didn't vote - plus usually to vote within party policy. This is where the complexity comes in and I do understand the anger but as we have demonstrated with the discussion on here, there is no simple black and white answer, despite what Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage and others try to tell you.

Yes I too am angry at David Cameron and George Osborne for agreeing to the referendum in the first place. All done to appease their right wing colleagues so they could stay in power. They were weak politicians, and cowards that skedaddled as soon as it all went wrong. But Cameron and Osborne are pussy cats compared with this lot waiting to take power in a new Tory government.

Really, as a working man, do you honestly think these entitled, smirking, public school graduates are on YOUR side?
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Post  wanderer on 2019-11-22, 2:38 pm

Hieronymus wrote:
gil t azell wrote:
Hieronymus wrote:
gil t azell wrote:I despise all MP's equally. I firmly believe every single one of them is in it for themselves.

Boris is a liar or alternatively not very good at the various jobs he has had. Has renaged on countless promises he has made whilst in various positions and so cannot be trusted. 

Corbyn. Waste of a good skin. If Labour had a decent leader they would be just about in power now.

Swinson (is that her name) has nice boobs and I admire her for at least being honest stating that taxes would rise. She at least had the decency to then state where the money was going for each tax rise.

I havent seen much of the Greens, Farage or any of the other parties.

Revert back to my 1st sentence. I stand by that.

Bring back the Monster Raving Loony Party is what I say. Anybody who states in their manifesto that socks will be sold in packs of threes thus preventing the odd sock problem deserves our votes.
Labour has a fully costed programme and has also said taxes will rise to pay for repairing the damage of 10 years of Tory Austerity. The difference is the Lib Dems would put a penny on the tax of everyone from the lowest paid upwards - while Labour will only increase tax for those who earn £80k per year or more, and will ensure that corporations like Amazon, Google, Starbucks etc pay their full tax due, like any ordinary individual has to.  Of course the Tories have failed to tell us how any of their promises would be paid for. Boris was unable today to even explain how national insurance works - because he has never had to deal with it like a normal worker would.

So if I win and am elected will you despise me as just another lying MP out for herself?

It is very easy to criticise when you are not the one willing to put your own head above the parapet. So what alternative do you propose? If the whole system is rotten how would YOU go about fixing it?
H despise is possibly a too strong a word but im my experience Labour normally borrow loads and loads of money and the working man has a reasonable couple of years. This money at some point has to be paid back to this imaginary bank.  The Tories get back into power and the working man suffers as they reign in the spending. 
You say fully costed. Where  is the money coming from? The corporations like Amazon, Google etc have the best legal brains money can buy. They will delay and delay paying any taxes and while all these appeals are going on who is paying their wages? Wouldnt be the taxpayer would it? Re@ the £80k+. It must be nice but I am assuming they get paid that as they are fairly intelligent responsible people. Why should they get punished more? By the way I am not having a go at any government or party on taxation as I think it must be a ballache.

I have no doubt some MP's give it their all for their constitutents but the three current Labour MP's for this city all voted against what the local electorate voted for. Basically to get out of the EU.  Surely it is an MP's job to comply with what is asked for? After all I believe it is the taxpayers who pay MP's wages.

My hatred of politicians stems from being given the referendum in the 1st place. I accept that that was the Tories however they were a democratically elected government paid to make these decisions. Did they bottle this so they could blame the public regardless of what happened in the future or did they plan this all along.
I am pretty sure you woudl never despise me - Gil - I  do understand what you are saying and i am hearing it a lot - people up here (and in Scotland) were taken for granted by previous Labour governments and got the kicking they perhaps deserved. But its all backfired because it's STILL the people of the North that are suffering the most. Hence for me the Brexit vote - because it wasn't the EU people were reacting against it was ALL POLITICIANS EVERYWHERE!!

But we have to go back to basics. What is a government for if not the protection and betterment of their citizens? It is my view that we serve the majority best with a Socialist approach, where the poorest and the most vulnerable are cared for, and where working families don't have to go to food banks or pay exorbitant rents to private landlords to survive.

All public services have to be paid for by someone. The Tory way is for the 95% to pay more and the rich get richer while the working class gets shafted. Food banks! Homelessness! Crippled NHS! Schools begging parents for money to buy books! Disabled people unable to get benefits! Is that honestly what you want?

You can check what people will pay under the planned Labour regime on this calculator:

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Also the Tories have borrowed more in last 10 years than Labour have In ALL Labour governments put together. Don't forget also that Labour's debt in 2010 was exacerbated by bailing out the banks after 2008 crash, or borrowing would have been even lower, after 13 years of Labour government. But no 'the people' decided that Gordon Brown could not be trusted (aided and abetted by the S*n, the Mail, Express, Times and Telegraph - with a lot of help from Sky and BBC) . So we got the coalition and this all led to the UK now being led by a sociopathic liar, Johnson!

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And also, you may not want to read this, but it is not an MPs job to ALWAYS comply with their constituents. It is an MPs duty to ensure they do the best they can for ALL their constituents - however they voted or didn't vote - plus usually to vote within party policy. This is where the complexity comes in and I do understand the anger but as we have demonstrated with the discussion on here, there is no simple black and white answer, despite what Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage and others try to tell you.

Yes I too am angry at David Cameron and George Osborne for agreeing to the referendum in the first place. All done to appease their right wing colleagues so they could stay in power. They were weak politicians, and cowards that skedaddled as soon as it all went wrong. But Cameron and Osborne are pussy cats compared with this lot waiting to take power in a new Tory government.

Really, as a working man, do you honestly think these entitled, smirking, public school graduates are on YOUR side?

Nice to know that you may not do what the people that may vote you in want, but you will do what you want, and what Corbyn says.
And Johnson, Rees Mogg, Farage and others are wrong, but Labour are right.
Im pleased you have cleared that up.
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Post  fitz on 2019-11-23, 4:17 pm

the one area of taxation I would revisit is inheritance tax - given that the vast majority of it is down to whether or not your parents owned their own home and where it is it really is just a lottery at this point - if your mum and dad happened to have lived near London and had a small house they bought in the 70s for a couple of grand it could easily be worth a million now and that is not money that they have earned or been previously taxed upon and it should (IMO) be subject to pretty substantial tax rates above a reasonable amount - tax revenue has to come from somewhere and so for every penny that isn't raised via this route (which as I said has not really been earned but is just a by product of time) then it means higher taxes for those currently in work.

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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-23, 4:29 pm

fitz wrote:the one area of taxation I would revisit is inheritance tax - given that the vast majority of it is down to whether or not your parents owned their own home and where it is it really is just a lottery at this point - if your mum and dad happened to have lived near London and had a small house they bought in the 70s for a couple of grand it could easily be worth a million now and that is not money that they have earned or been previously taxed upon and it should (IMO) be subject to pretty substantial tax rates above a reasonable amount - tax revenue has to come from somewhere and so for every penny that isn't raised via this route (which as I said has not really been earned but is just a by product of time) then it means higher taxes for those currently in work.
Very good point - I happen to agree - a form of Capital Gains Tax really whihc currently does not apply to the 'family' home. Worth some thought definitely
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Post  fitz on 2019-11-23, 6:13 pm

Hieronymus wrote:
fitz wrote:the one area of taxation I would revisit is inheritance tax - given that the vast majority of it is down to whether or not your parents owned their own home and where it is it really is just a lottery at this point - if your mum and dad happened to have lived near London and had a small house they bought in the 70s for a couple of grand it could easily be worth a million now and that is not money that they have earned or been previously taxed upon and it should (IMO) be subject to pretty substantial tax rates above a reasonable amount - tax revenue has to come from somewhere and so for every penny that isn't raised via this route (which as I said has not really been earned but is just a by product of time) then it means higher taxes for those currently in work.
Very good point - I happen to agree - a form of Capital Gains Tax really whihc currently does not apply to the 'family' home. Worth some thought definitely

steady on Smile I am not suggesting capital gains tax on the family home which you are living in - it is already hard to move up the ladder with stamp duty effectively acting as a tax on moving - i am talking purely about inheritance taxes - at the moment the threshold is (I believe) £325k but if there is a property involved it increases and as I understand it you can effectively inherit around £1m without paying any tax - and the right want to get rid of it altogether (I wonder why.....?) - in the US the rate has been doubled under the current administration and the threshold there is now $11m

someone I know recently inherited a house from their grandmother that is worth the best part of £800k - they are in their early 20s - its basically a lottery system in which there is no link whatsoever between effort and reward

naturally if i actually stood to inherit any sizable amount myself then I would no doubt look up all this in a very different light :p

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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-23, 7:13 pm

fitz wrote:
Hieronymus wrote:
fitz wrote:the one area of taxation I would revisit is inheritance tax - given that the vast majority of it is down to whether or not your parents owned their own home and where it is it really is just a lottery at this point - if your mum and dad happened to have lived near London and had a small house they bought in the 70s for a couple of grand it could easily be worth a million now and that is not money that they have earned or been previously taxed upon and it should (IMO) be subject to pretty substantial tax rates above a reasonable amount - tax revenue has to come from somewhere and so for every penny that isn't raised via this route (which as I said has not really been earned but is just a by product of time) then it means higher taxes for those currently in work.
Very good point - I happen to agree - a form of Capital Gains Tax really whihc currently does not apply to the 'family' home. Worth some thought definitely

steady on Smile I am not suggesting capital gains tax on the family home which you are living in - it is already hard to move up the ladder with stamp duty effectively acting as a tax on moving - i am talking purely about inheritance taxes - at the moment the threshold is (I believe) £325k but if there is a property involved it increases and as I understand it you can effectively inherit around £1m without paying any tax - and the right want to get rid of it altogether (I wonder why.....?) - in the US the rate has been doubled under the current administration and the threshold there is now $11m

someone I know recently inherited a house from their grandmother that is worth the best part of £800k - they are in their early 20s - its basically a lottery system in which there is no link whatsoever between effort and reward

naturally if i actually stood to inherit any sizable amount myself then I would no doubt look up all this in a very different light :p
That is what I meant - sorry I worded it badly.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-23, 7:30 pm

Everyone richer than me should be highly taxed.
Everyone poorer than me should be shipped off to the workhouse.
All monies saved should be given to me.
The blinkered will not agree but I think that's fair.

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Post  Vincemac on 2019-11-23, 8:07 pm

cyprussyd wrote:Everyone richer than me should be highly taxed.
Everyone poorer than me should be shipped off to the workhouse.
All monies saved should be given to me.
The blinkered will not agree but I think that's fair.
Basically oap should pay a lower tax rate
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Post  fitz on 2019-11-23, 11:08 pm

cyprussyd wrote:Everyone richer than me should be highly taxed.
Everyone poorer than me should be shipped off to the workhouse.
All monies saved should be given to me.
The blinkered will not agree but I think that's fair.

have you been reading my manifesto?  Razz

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Post  maghater on 2019-11-27, 7:56 pm

Couple of points I would like to pick up that have been made in this three. Firstly government borrowing under the Tories 2010 onward. When a government makes a budget, they extrapolate spending forward over decent wedge of time, this would cover things lie NHS, education, defence, social spending etc. Any incoming government is then committed to honouring these spending commitments. Sadly by 2010 the recession was biting deeply tax revenues were on the floor, and the only way to keep these commitments was to borrow.Anyone remember Liam Byrnes note that Cameron paraded up and down the country apologising for Labour leaving no money. This leads nicely onto the second point, "the nasty Tory austerity". As posters have ridiculed the Tory borrowing, it therefor appears strange to object to austerity. The only ways to reduce borrowing, are to increase tax, or cut back on spending. Increasing taxation in a recession is counterproductive as it disincentivates workers, and retards business developments, this leaves cuts, which although unpopular have brought borrowing under some kind of control.
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