SunderMad
Why not join in with our small but perfectly formed community?

We are always looking for new members so sign up and join in, its free.

SOME PEOPLE SEEM TO HIT A SNAG WHEN TRYING TO REGISTER! NOT SURE WHY? IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM EMAIL ME AND I WILL SORT IT?
sundamad@aol.com
Sky Sports-SunderMad Exclusive.
Latest topics

What do i do?

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

What do i do? Empty What do i do?

Post  barrowmackem on 2019-11-17, 7:47 pm

Never voted conservative in my life but the things Corbyn is spouting i just cant vote for him either. Barrow could well be a marginal seat and if abstain from voting have i wasted my very important vote.

________________________________________________________
Sunderland AFC fans, (The Special Ones)
barrowmackem
barrowmackem
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 2874
Join date : 2014-09-29
Location : Barrow-in-Furness

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-17, 7:55 pm

barrowmackem wrote:Never voted conservative in my life but the things Corbyn is spouting i just cant vote for him either. Barrow could well be a marginal seat and if abstain from voting have i wasted my very important vote.
Very very easy for me..Tories have destroyed many around me and will never ever get my vote.

Corbyn spouting..

Nationalise water
National bank fair to all
Broadband for all
NHS saved and improved
Children and adult teeth checked for free
Work for peace not war


Who will pay, well the Tories always can find the cash
#
No contest, labour it is then

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
cyprussyd
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 49900
Join date : 2012-07-31
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-11-17, 8:02 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:Never voted conservative in my life but the things Corbyn is spouting i just cant vote for him either. Barrow could well be a marginal seat and if abstain from voting have i wasted my very important vote.
Very very easy for me..Tories have destroyed many around me and will never ever get my vote.

Corbyn spouting..

Nationalise water
National bank fair to all
Broadband for all
NHS saved and improved
Children and adult teeth checked for free
Work for peace not war


Who will pay, well the Tories always can find the cash
#
No contest, labour it is then
Will you get a free Netflix with the Broadband bundle like elsewhere?

________________________________________________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]     [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Black Cat Kiwi
Black Cat Kiwi
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 10571
Join date : 2012-08-01
Age : 101
Location : Godzone

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Gordon Armstrong on 2019-11-17, 9:12 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:Never voted conservative in my life but the things Corbyn is spouting i just cant vote for him either. Barrow could well be a marginal seat and if abstain from voting have i wasted my very important vote.
Very very easy for me..Tories have destroyed many around me and will never ever get my vote.

Corbyn spouting..

Nationalise water
National bank fair to all
Broadband for all
NHS saved and improved
Children and adult teeth checked for free
Work for peace not war


Who will pay, well the Tories always can find the cash
#
No contest, labour it is then
What a load of bollocks  clown
Gordon Armstrong
Gordon Armstrong
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 366
Join date : 2016-01-21
Age : 26
Location : South Shields, Sunderland

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-18, 12:22 am

well if will I get free netflix and what a load of bollocks are the best objections I guess I am making the right choice

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
cyprussyd
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 49900
Join date : 2012-07-31
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-11-18, 12:45 am

cyprussyd wrote:well if will I get free netflix and what a load of bollocks are the best objections I guess I am making the right choice
rof rof

Ps. You won't have to pay for Sunderland #2  Wink

________________________________________________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]     [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Black Cat Kiwi
Black Cat Kiwi
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 10571
Join date : 2012-08-01
Age : 101
Location : Godzone

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-18, 10:06 am

barrowmackem wrote:Never voted conservative in my life but the things Corbyn is spouting i just cant vote for him either. Barrow could well be a marginal seat and if abstain from voting have i wasted my very important vote.
I thought abuot not responding as really don't want to fall out with anyone on here, but I guess I cannot help myself!

Dear Barrow, I don't agree with you but understand why you may feel that way given how JC is portrayed on TV. I mean a vegetarian, softly spoken man, who enjoys gardening in his allotment is obviously a threat to UK peace and security, while our Prime Minister who lied 9 times in a TV interview lasting less than 10 minutes, and is friends with Trump, is not?

When I speak to people who say "Cant vote for JC" I remind them that they are not voting for him, they are voting for me. A local woman who will be a hard working Labour MP, someone who will do my very best for the people of Berwick. I am not in this for personal power, I want to work for my community and ensure they get the proper services and investment that they deserve. And I am getting very positive responses on the doors and on streets when I explain the policies that will make a difference to their lives.

Please Barrow - we have had many chats on Chatbox and although we have never met I think we have a mutual respect and friendship.  I ask you to consider what 5 more years of Tory Government, with an inveterate liar, racist and misogynist Prime Minister will look like? Think where we are now as a country after almost 10 years of Tory Austerity. They claim it's over - but I am sorry, you can never trust a Tory.

The new candidate for Barrow-in-Furness is ex-Army, a local lad and fully supports Dreadnought, and retaining the nuclear deterrent is Labour Party Policy.


  • Labour announce Chris Altree as their parliamentary candidate for Barrow and Furness


Labour announce Chris Altree as their parliamentary candidate for Barrow and Furness

by Cumbria Crack02/02/2019

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Chris Altree
Chris Altree has been selected as Labour’s candidate for the Barrow and Furness constituency to stand in the next General Election.
Chris was born in Barrow and works for Network Rail as a signaller on the Furness line. Prior to that, he was an engineer in the Royal Corp of Signal and served in the Falklands and Afghanistan.
Chris has deep connections to Barrow and he will work hard to protect jobs and fight for investment in manufacturing so that all corners of Barrow and Furness can thrive. He fully supports dreadnought in Barrow and Labour’s defence policy which protects workers in the shipyard.
Speaking after the selection, Chris said: “I am proud to have been selected to be Labour’s candidate for the next general election.
“This Tory government has overseen the biggest cuts to our public services in a generation. The NHS and social care is in crisis, our schools are struggling under the weight of the budget cuts and cuts to police budgets are putting our safety at risk.
“People here in Barrow and Furness need a local representative that will put them first. I will work tirelessly to let local people know that they have a choice between a Labour Party that will stand up for the people of Barrow and Furness or a Conservative Party that only looks after the privileged few.”

Also this article tells you more about him:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And have a look at this: - this is the impact of Tory Austerity on your community - play around and look how much your local schools have had cut from their budgets.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

These savage cuts are reflected in the NHS, police, fire, ambulance services, social care and all locally provided public services. This is where the anger should be directed. The Tories want this election to be about Brexit - but for me it's about saving our NHS and or Schools. It is about restoring our souls too. Britain used to be a generally tolerant and welcoming country and now we read and hear hate and bile and abuse daily. I hate it!

Surely it is time for change?

The country will not be bankrupted by Labour. In fact the Tories have bult up more national debt since 2010 than Labour have in ALL governments they have EVER led. But you won't see that on the BBC or Sky News. Only anyone earning more than £80k per year will pay more tax under our investment plans. Plus Amazon and Google etc. will not be allowed to escape paying their fair share. Why do you think there are so many attacks on us? Because the elite want things to stay the same so the 1% get all the benefits and workers are just the 'cannon fodder'!

How can any working people believe privileged and entitled people like Johnson, Rees-Mogg, even Farage are on their side? They are not - they only know their own ambition and greed.

Anyway I am grateful that you and so many are agonising over the decision. It means you understand what is at stake. I hope that our friendship is enough that you will at least consider what I have said, not abstain and will Vote Labour (even if holding your nose while you do it!). Thanks for reading kiss
Hieronymus
Hieronymus
Admin Problem Solver
Admin Problem Solver

Posts : 10246
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 63

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  barrowmackem on 2019-11-18, 10:30 am

I think H my gripe more than anything else is the country voted to leave the EU a democratic decision end of. JC want to undermine that by another referendum if labour win, i dont get it the country has spoken why does he no abide by that decision? I voted leave and a big factor in that was so we could close our borders and control immigration. JC wants practically free movement if we leave. JC hates a nuclear deterrent but i am not naive enough to think he will get his way as the Labour party endorses it.
H i value all comments in fact i asked for them  Smile am i wrong in what i am saying though?

________________________________________________________
Sunderland AFC fans, (The Special Ones)
barrowmackem
barrowmackem
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 2874
Join date : 2014-09-29
Location : Barrow-in-Furness

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-18, 10:41 am

barrowmackem wrote:I think H my gripe more than anything else is the country voted to leave the EU a democratic decision end of. JC want to undermine that by another referendum if labour win, i dont get it the country has spoken why does he no abide by that decision? I voted leave and a big factor in that was so we could close our borders and control immigration. JC wants practically free movement if we leave. JC hates a nuclear deterrent but i am not naive enough to think he will get his way as the Labour party endorses it.
H i value all comments in fact i asked for them  Smile am i wrong in what i am saying though?
H is far more knowledgeable than me in this but I also voted leave but for different reasons, immigration has never been a problem for me but illegal immigration has.

My reason for voting labour comes in two parts, the future of our country and fairness trumps BREXIT for me and now, 3 years on, I may well vote stay knowing what I have seen over those three years.

No easy answers thats for sure.

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
cyprussyd
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 49900
Join date : 2012-07-31
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  wanderer on 2019-11-18, 11:50 am

Hieronymus wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:Never voted conservative in my life but the things Corbyn is spouting i just cant vote for him either. Barrow could well be a marginal seat and if abstain from voting have i wasted my very important vote.
I thought abuot not responding as really don't want to fall out with anyone on here, but I guess I cannot help myself!

Dear Barrow, I don't agree with you but understand why you may feel that way given how JC is portrayed on TV. I mean a vegetarian, softly spoken man, who enjoys gardening in his allotment is obviously a threat to UK peace and security, while our Prime Minister who lied 9 times in a TV interview lasting less than 10 minutes, and is friends with Trump, is not?

When I speak to people who say "Cant vote for JC" I remind them that they are not voting for him, they are voting for me. A local woman who will be a hard working Labour MP, someone who will do my very best for the people of Berwick. I am not in this for personal power, I want to work for my community and ensure they get the proper services and investment that they deserve. And I am getting very positive responses on the doors and on streets when I explain the policies that will make a difference to their lives.

Please Barrow - we have had many chats on Chatbox and although we have never met I think we have a mutual respect and friendship.  I ask you to consider what 5 more years of Tory Government, with an inveterate liar, racist and misogynist Prime Minister will look like? Think where we are now as a country after almost 10 years of Tory Austerity. They claim it's over - but I am sorry, you can never trust a Tory.

The new candidate for Barrow-in-Furness is ex-Army, a local lad and fully supports Dreadnought, and retaining the nuclear deterrent is Labour Party Policy.


  • Labour announce Chris Altree as their parliamentary candidate for Barrow and Furness


Labour announce Chris Altree as their parliamentary candidate for Barrow and Furness

by Cumbria Crack02/02/2019

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Chris Altree
Chris Altree has been selected as Labour’s candidate for the Barrow and Furness constituency to stand in the next General Election.
Chris was born in Barrow and works for Network Rail as a signaller on the Furness line. Prior to that, he was an engineer in the Royal Corp of Signal and served in the Falklands and Afghanistan.
Chris has deep connections to Barrow and he will work hard to protect jobs and fight for investment in manufacturing so that all corners of Barrow and Furness can thrive. He fully supports dreadnought in Barrow and Labour’s defence policy which protects workers in the shipyard.
Speaking after the selection, Chris said: “I am proud to have been selected to be Labour’s candidate for the next general election.
“This Tory government has overseen the biggest cuts to our public services in a generation. The NHS and social care is in crisis, our schools are struggling under the weight of the budget cuts and cuts to police budgets are putting our safety at risk.
“People here in Barrow and Furness need a local representative that will put them first. I will work tirelessly to let local people know that they have a choice between a Labour Party that will stand up for the people of Barrow and Furness or a Conservative Party that only looks after the privileged few.”

Also this article tells you more about him:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And have a look at this: - this is the impact of Tory Austerity on your community - play around and look how much your local schools have had cut from their budgets.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

These savage cuts are reflected in the NHS, police, fire, ambulance services, social care and all locally provided public services. This is where the anger should be directed. The Tories want this election to be about Brexit - but for me it's about saving our NHS and or Schools. It is about restoring our souls too. Britain used to be a generally tolerant and welcoming country and now we read and hear hate and bile and abuse daily. I hate it!

Surely it is time for change?

The country will not be bankrupted by Labour. In fact the Tories have bult up more national debt since 2010 than Labour have in ALL governments they have EVER led. But you won't see that on the BBC or Sky News. Only anyone earning more than £80k per year will pay more tax under our investment plans. Plus Amazon and Google etc. will not be allowed to escape paying their fair share. Why do you think there are so many attacks on us? Because the elite want things to stay the same so the 1% get all the benefits and workers are just the 'cannon fodder'!

How can any working people believe privileged and entitled people like Johnson, Rees-Mogg, even Farage are on their side? They are not - they only know their own ambition and greed.

Anyway I am grateful that you and so many are agonising over the decision. It means you understand what is at stake. I hope that our friendship is enough that you will at least consider what I have said, not abstain and will Vote Labour (even if holding your nose while you do it!). Thanks for reading kiss
Please don't insult people's intelligence, we all know we are not voting Corbyn Johnson or that annoying Lib Dem. But whoever becomes a MP there is a knock on to who becomes PM. And right now that is what most people care about.
wanderer
wanderer
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 210
Join date : 2019-08-04

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-18, 3:39 pm

barrowmackem wrote:I think H my gripe more than anything else is the country voted to leave the EU a democratic decision end of. JC want to undermine that by another referendum if labour win, i dont get it the country has spoken why does he no abide by that decision? I voted leave and a big factor in that was so we could close our borders and control immigration. JC wants practically free movement if we leave. JC hates a nuclear deterrent but i am not naive enough to think he will get his way as the Labour party endorses it.
H i value all comments in fact i asked for them  Smile am i wrong in what i am saying though?
On the surface it looks simple, but as we have discovered, Brexit is far more complex than it ever seemed on that date in June in 2016.

I strongly believe that MPs are elected for the protection and betterment of the people they represent, but they must also always think what is best for the country as a whole. Sometimes those things conflict and Brexit has produced a conflict so huge it is actually a constitutional crisis. That is why Parliament has not been able to reach a consensus on a deal for leaving the EU.

Just to be clear JC is not committed to free movement (not that this is reported in Daily Heil) and is very much for the protection of UK workers rights, He does believe foreign nationals living here, working, contributing and paying taxes should have protection and right to remain. I agree with him. Friends of my grandchildren are children of a lovely Polish couple - lived and worked here 12 years, both children born here. The family have had letters that they may not be entitled to stay, but they won't know until after Brexit is implemented. So life has been made very difficult for them, and they have been made to feel unwelcome by the country they had come to regard as home, and the only country their children know. So should this man and his family be forced to leave because he and his wife are "immigrants"?

Labour Party Conference did pass a resolution to keep free movement - but the NEC - our Parliament in effect-  does not have to enact it if they feel it is not in the best interests of the Party in the longer term. Only when the manifesto comes out on Thursday will we know what that policy actually is. Given the NHS has a lot of EU workers, and most seasonal workers for our agriculture and food processing industries are from the EU, it is tricky. I heard a woman on the radio just a couple of weeks ago - she was head of the UK Fruit Production Board or something - saying how the lack of workers meant that thousands of tons of apples and soft fruit literally went to waste because they had not enough people to pick them. Because the romanians and others who used to come to do the picking have stopped, due to the hostile environment here and that it was easier to just go to France or Germany and do their seasonal work there. And British workers will not do it instead - because no one here wants work for only 6-8 weeks and then nothing till next year do they? Plus it's hard physical labour and many Brits consider such work beneath them!!

My view is that Labour's position on Brexit (get elected, negotiate better deal within 3 months, put to people's vote within 6 months)  is the only sensible approach given we are at such an impasse. MPs on all sides felt unable to vote in all conscience for May's Bad Deal or Johnson's Hard Brexit Even Worse Deal, both which will devastate lives already at rock bottom after 10 years of Tory austerity.

I look at it now as the Tories have turned into the Hard Brexit party and the Lib Dems the Hard Remain party. Only Labour are trying to seek the centre ground because Leave or Remain we have to heal the divisions Brexit has caused. I believe that a majority of moderate Leavers alos feel a Hard brexit is probably bad and would accept a softer Brexit. And many moderate Remainers recognise there may be a form of Brexit they could live with, just to get it over with - so that we can get on with fixing the country.

This is surely the only way forward now? I believe Labour CAN negotiate a credible Brexit that protects jobs, the economy, the environment and human rights. And if Labour are elected and that sensible Brexit Deal is negotiated I would probably vote for it, even as a Remainer in the last election. Because we absolutely must move on now and being 'right' or 'wrong' is not the issue. Our country is on its knees and five more years of Tory government is the worst outcome, beyond all imagining for me.

I hope this helps - and that you know that I would never insult yours or anyone's intelligence by the way.
Hieronymus
Hieronymus
Admin Problem Solver
Admin Problem Solver

Posts : 10246
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 63

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Mackemneil on 2019-11-18, 4:42 pm

wanderer wrote:
Hieronymus wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:Never voted conservative in my life but the things Corbyn is spouting i just cant vote for him either. Barrow could well be a marginal seat and if abstain from voting have i wasted my very important vote.
I thought abuot not responding as really don't want to fall out with anyone on here, but I guess I cannot help myself!

Dear Barrow, I don't agree with you but understand why you may feel that way given how JC is portrayed on TV. I mean a vegetarian, softly spoken man, who enjoys gardening in his allotment is obviously a threat to UK peace and security, while our Prime Minister who lied 9 times in a TV interview lasting less than 10 minutes, and is friends with Trump, is not?

When I speak to people who say "Cant vote for JC" I remind them that they are not voting for him, they are voting for me. A local woman who will be a hard working Labour MP, someone who will do my very best for the people of Berwick. I am not in this for personal power, I want to work for my community and ensure they get the proper services and investment that they deserve. And I am getting very positive responses on the doors and on streets when I explain the policies that will make a difference to their lives.

Please Barrow - we have had many chats on Chatbox and although we have never met I think we have a mutual respect and friendship.  I ask you to consider what 5 more years of Tory Government, with an inveterate liar, racist and misogynist Prime Minister will look like? Think where we are now as a country after almost 10 years of Tory Austerity. They claim it's over - but I am sorry, you can never trust a Tory.

The new candidate for Barrow-in-Furness is ex-Army, a local lad and fully supports Dreadnought, and retaining the nuclear deterrent is Labour Party Policy.


  • Labour announce Chris Altree as their parliamentary candidate for Barrow and Furness


Labour announce Chris Altree as their parliamentary candidate for Barrow and Furness

by Cumbria Crack02/02/2019

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Chris Altree
Chris Altree has been selected as Labour’s candidate for the Barrow and Furness constituency to stand in the next General Election.
Chris was born in Barrow and works for Network Rail as a signaller on the Furness line. Prior to that, he was an engineer in the Royal Corp of Signal and served in the Falklands and Afghanistan.
Chris has deep connections to Barrow and he will work hard to protect jobs and fight for investment in manufacturing so that all corners of Barrow and Furness can thrive. He fully supports dreadnought in Barrow and Labour’s defence policy which protects workers in the shipyard.
Speaking after the selection, Chris said: “I am proud to have been selected to be Labour’s candidate for the next general election.
“This Tory government has overseen the biggest cuts to our public services in a generation. The NHS and social care is in crisis, our schools are struggling under the weight of the budget cuts and cuts to police budgets are putting our safety at risk.
“People here in Barrow and Furness need a local representative that will put them first. I will work tirelessly to let local people know that they have a choice between a Labour Party that will stand up for the people of Barrow and Furness or a Conservative Party that only looks after the privileged few.”

Also this article tells you more about him:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And have a look at this: - this is the impact of Tory Austerity on your community - play around and look how much your local schools have had cut from their budgets.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

These savage cuts are reflected in the NHS, police, fire, ambulance services, social care and all locally provided public services. This is where the anger should be directed. The Tories want this election to be about Brexit - but for me it's about saving our NHS and or Schools. It is about restoring our souls too. Britain used to be a generally tolerant and welcoming country and now we read and hear hate and bile and abuse daily. I hate it!

Surely it is time for change?

The country will not be bankrupted by Labour. In fact the Tories have bult up more national debt since 2010 than Labour have in ALL governments they have EVER led. But you won't see that on the BBC or Sky News. Only anyone earning more than £80k per year will pay more tax under our investment plans. Plus Amazon and Google etc. will not be allowed to escape paying their fair share. Why do you think there are so many attacks on us? Because the elite want things to stay the same so the 1% get all the benefits and workers are just the 'cannon fodder'!

How can any working people believe privileged and entitled people like Johnson, Rees-Mogg, even Farage are on their side? They are not - they only know their own ambition and greed.

Anyway I am grateful that you and so many are agonising over the decision. It means you understand what is at stake. I hope that our friendship is enough that you will at least consider what I have said, not abstain and will Vote Labour (even if holding your nose while you do it!). Thanks for reading kiss
Please don't insult people's intelligence, we all know we are not voting Corbyn Johnson or that annoying Lib Dem. But whoever becomes a MP there is a knock on to who becomes PM. And right now that is what most people care about.
Sorry wanderer, but whilst I respect your opinions I do not believe that is what most people care about. Ultimately, it is not the leader alone that will affect the life of most individuals it is the policies that a government follows. The personality competition is hyped up newspapers and the media at large to sell their papers and raise their viewing figures. Personally, I don't think any of the leaders are particularly statesman-like and don't even come close in that respect to the likes of Blair, Thatcher and Wilson, whatever your thoughts maybe about those three. But, we are where we are and H's summary above of where we are and certainly the things that matter to most people are clear. I would add social care and housing to that list as major issues. It is all of those issues we should consider and vote for the candidates and government that you feel can respond best to those issues for the benefit of all of us.
Mackemneil
Mackemneil
MODERATOR
MODERATOR

Posts : 2441
Join date : 2012-08-10
Age : 64
Location : Holme on Spalding Moor, York

http://mackemneil.wordpress.com/

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-18, 4:50 pm

Mackemneil wrote:
wanderer wrote:
Hieronymus wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:Never voted conservative in my life but the things Corbyn is spouting i just cant vote for him either. Barrow could well be a marginal seat and if abstain from voting have i wasted my very important vote.
I thought abuot not responding as really don't want to fall out with anyone on here, but I guess I cannot help myself!

Dear Barrow, I don't agree with you but understand why you may feel that way given how JC is portrayed on TV. I mean a vegetarian, softly spoken man, who enjoys gardening in his allotment is obviously a threat to UK peace and security, while our Prime Minister who lied 9 times in a TV interview lasting less than 10 minutes, and is friends with Trump, is not?

When I speak to people who say "Cant vote for JC" I remind them that they are not voting for him, they are voting for me. A local woman who will be a hard working Labour MP, someone who will do my very best for the people of Berwick. I am not in this for personal power, I want to work for my community and ensure they get the proper services and investment that they deserve. And I am getting very positive responses on the doors and on streets when I explain the policies that will make a difference to their lives.

Please Barrow - we have had many chats on Chatbox and although we have never met I think we have a mutual respect and friendship.  I ask you to consider what 5 more years of Tory Government, with an inveterate liar, racist and misogynist Prime Minister will look like? Think where we are now as a country after almost 10 years of Tory Austerity. They claim it's over - but I am sorry, you can never trust a Tory.

The new candidate for Barrow-in-Furness is ex-Army, a local lad and fully supports Dreadnought, and retaining the nuclear deterrent is Labour Party Policy.


  • Labour announce Chris Altree as their parliamentary candidate for Barrow and Furness


Labour announce Chris Altree as their parliamentary candidate for Barrow and Furness

by Cumbria Crack02/02/2019

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Chris Altree
Chris Altree has been selected as Labour’s candidate for the Barrow and Furness constituency to stand in the next General Election.
Chris was born in Barrow and works for Network Rail as a signaller on the Furness line. Prior to that, he was an engineer in the Royal Corp of Signal and served in the Falklands and Afghanistan.
Chris has deep connections to Barrow and he will work hard to protect jobs and fight for investment in manufacturing so that all corners of Barrow and Furness can thrive. He fully supports dreadnought in Barrow and Labour’s defence policy which protects workers in the shipyard.
Speaking after the selection, Chris said: “I am proud to have been selected to be Labour’s candidate for the next general election.
“This Tory government has overseen the biggest cuts to our public services in a generation. The NHS and social care is in crisis, our schools are struggling under the weight of the budget cuts and cuts to police budgets are putting our safety at risk.
“People here in Barrow and Furness need a local representative that will put them first. I will work tirelessly to let local people know that they have a choice between a Labour Party that will stand up for the people of Barrow and Furness or a Conservative Party that only looks after the privileged few.”

Also this article tells you more about him:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And have a look at this: - this is the impact of Tory Austerity on your community - play around and look how much your local schools have had cut from their budgets.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

These savage cuts are reflected in the NHS, police, fire, ambulance services, social care and all locally provided public services. This is where the anger should be directed. The Tories want this election to be about Brexit - but for me it's about saving our NHS and or Schools. It is about restoring our souls too. Britain used to be a generally tolerant and welcoming country and now we read and hear hate and bile and abuse daily. I hate it!

Surely it is time for change?

The country will not be bankrupted by Labour. In fact the Tories have bult up more national debt since 2010 than Labour have in ALL governments they have EVER led. But you won't see that on the BBC or Sky News. Only anyone earning more than £80k per year will pay more tax under our investment plans. Plus Amazon and Google etc. will not be allowed to escape paying their fair share. Why do you think there are so many attacks on us? Because the elite want things to stay the same so the 1% get all the benefits and workers are just the 'cannon fodder'!

How can any working people believe privileged and entitled people like Johnson, Rees-Mogg, even Farage are on their side? They are not - they only know their own ambition and greed.

Anyway I am grateful that you and so many are agonising over the decision. It means you understand what is at stake. I hope that our friendship is enough that you will at least consider what I have said, not abstain and will Vote Labour (even if holding your nose while you do it!). Thanks for reading kiss
Please don't insult people's intelligence, we all know we are not voting Corbyn Johnson or that annoying Lib Dem. But whoever becomes a MP there is a knock on to who becomes PM. And right now that is what most people care about.
Sorry wanderer, but whilst I respect your opinions I do not believe that is what most people care about. Ultimately, it is not the leader alone that will affect the life of most individuals it is the policies that a government follows. The personality competition is hyped up newspapers and the media at large to sell their papers and raise their viewing figures. Personally, I don't think any of the leaders are particularly statesman-like and don't even come close in that respect to the likes of Blair, Thatcher and Wilson, whatever your thoughts maybe about those three. But, we are where we are and H's summary above of where we are and certainly the things that matter to most people are clear. I would add social care and housing to that list as major issues. It is all of those issues we should consider and vote for the candidates and government that you feel can respond best to those issues for the benefit of all of us.
Indeed Social Care and Housing are also on the list of key issues people raise with me, but my post was already very long! Smile
Hieronymus
Hieronymus
Admin Problem Solver
Admin Problem Solver

Posts : 10246
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 63

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-18, 5:36 pm

For what it is worth. it would be a no-brainer for me as personality politics of the leaders is not the issue, nor the issue of the referendum from three years ago since everything a lot of  what people were fearing that were trumpeted then,  have not materialised .   

The party that offers the best deal for those of us in our positions would get my vote every time. 
,
avatar
Nostalgic
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 4301
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 81
Location : Auckland NZ

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  gil t azell on 2019-11-18, 6:49 pm

Well I wont be voting for anyone. 

I do not trust any of them. SOS H.

In my opinion the working man is usually better off under Labour but tend to find they borrow off some imaginary bank to fund better lives on a temporary basis. At some point this money has to be paid back. 

When they get voted out the Conservative party get in who then allegedly pay this money back but who in fact usually help the rich and put the working man back to where he was. This current Tory government in my opinion would have us back in the workhouse. Boris is a liar and has been caught out too many times to be trusted.

Labour would get back in power no problem I believe but not whilst JC is in charge. 

A very simplified version and not as eloquent as most of you put but there you go.
gil t azell
gil t azell
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 6180
Join date : 2012-08-03
Age : 59
Location : Sunderland

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Vincemac on 2019-11-18, 7:34 pm

gil t azell wrote:Well I wont be voting for anyone. 

I do not trust any of them. SOS H.

In my opinion the working man is usually better off under Labour but tend to find they borrow off some imaginary bank to fund better lives on a temporary basis. At some point this money has to be paid back. 

When they get voted out the Conservative party get in who then allegedly pay this money back but who in fact usually help the rich and put the working man back to where he was. This current Tory government in my opinion would have us back in the workhouse. Boris is a liar and has been caught out too many times to be trusted.

Labour would get back in power no problem I believe but not whilst JC is in charge. 

A very simplified version and not as eloquent as most of you put but there you go.
Yeh me too
avatar
Vincemac
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 7770
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 67

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-18, 8:07 pm

gil t azell wrote:Well I wont be voting for anyone. 

I do not trust any of them. SOS H.

In my opinion the working man is usually better off under Labour but tend to find they borrow off some imaginary bank to fund better lives on a temporary basis. At some point this money has to be paid back. 

When they get voted out the Conservative party get in who then allegedly pay this money back but who in fact usually help the rich and put the working man back to where he was. This current Tory government in my opinion would have us back in the workhouse. Boris is a liar and has been caught out too many times to be trusted.

Labour would get back in power no problem I believe but not whilst JC is in charge. 

A very simplified version and not as eloquent as most of you put but there you go.
Re debt
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Remember also in 2010 Labour had bailed out the banks so the debt would have been much lower if not for that. And Labour did not cause the banks to gamble away all that money. That was greed pure and simple - bankers bonuses anyone?
Hieronymus
Hieronymus
Admin Problem Solver
Admin Problem Solver

Posts : 10246
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 63

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-18, 8:17 pm

gil t azell wrote:Well I wont be voting for anyone. 

I do not trust any of them. SOS H.

In my opinion the working man is usually better off under Labour but tend to find they borrow off some imaginary bank to fund better lives on a temporary basis. At some point this money has to be paid back. 

When they get voted out the Conservative party get in who then allegedly pay this money back but who in fact usually help the rich and put the working man back to where he was. This current Tory government in my opinion would have us back in the workhouse. Boris is a liar and has been caught out too many times to be trusted.

Labour would get back in power no problem I believe but not whilst JC is in charge. 

A very simplified version and not as eloquent as most of you put but there you go.
Gil, don't be too hard on Corbyn as the right-wing press does it for everybody.  If he wants more oversight of what affects everybody's way of life maybe he wants to right some of the imbalance Thatcher foisted onto us via privatisation of utilities and wrecking of industries.
avatar
Nostalgic
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 4301
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 81
Location : Auckland NZ

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  wanderer on 2019-11-18, 10:11 pm

Hieronymus wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:I think H my gripe more than anything else is the country voted to leave the EU a democratic decision end of. JC want to undermine that by another referendum if labour win, i dont get it the country has spoken why does he no abide by that decision? I voted leave and a big factor in that was so we could close our borders and control immigration. JC wants practically free movement if we leave. JC hates a nuclear deterrent but i am not naive enough to think he will get his way as the Labour party endorses it.
H i value all comments in fact i asked for them  Smile am i wrong in what i am saying though?
On the surface it looks simple, but as we have discovered, Brexit is far more complex than it ever seemed on that date in June in 2016.

I strongly believe that MPs are elected for the protection and betterment of the people they represent, but they must also always think what is best for the country as a whole. Sometimes those things conflict and Brexit has produced a conflict so huge it is actually a constitutional crisis. That is why Parliament has not been able to reach a consensus on a deal for leaving the EU.

Just to be clear JC is not committed to free movement (not that this is reported in Daily Heil) and is very much for the protection of UK workers rights, He does believe foreign nationals living here, working, contributing and paying taxes should have protection and right to remain. I agree with him. Friends of my grandchildren are children of a lovely Polish couple - lived and worked here 12 years, both children born here. The family have had letters that they may not be entitled to stay, but they won't know until after Brexit is implemented. So life has been made very difficult for them, and they have been made to feel unwelcome by the country they had come to regard as home, and the only country their children know. So should this man and his family be forced to leave because he and his wife are "immigrants"?

Labour Party Conference did pass a resolution to keep free movement - but the NEC - our Parliament in effect-  does not have to enact it if they feel it is not in the best interests of the Party in the longer term. Only when the manifesto comes out on Thursday will we know what that policy actually is. Given the NHS has a lot of EU workers, and most seasonal workers for our agriculture and food processing industries are from the EU, it is tricky. I heard a woman on the radio just a couple of weeks ago - she was head of the UK Fruit Production Board or something - saying how the lack of workers meant that thousands of tons of apples and soft fruit literally went to waste because they had not enough people to pick them. Because the romanians and others who used to come to do the picking have stopped, due to the hostile environment here and that it was easier to just go to France or Germany and do their seasonal work there. And British workers will not do it instead - because no one here wants work for only 6-8 weeks and then nothing till next year do they? Plus it's hard physical labour and many Brits consider such work beneath them!!

My view is that Labour's position on Brexit (get elected, negotiate better deal within 3 months, put to people's vote within 6 months)  is the only sensible approach given we are at such an impasse. MPs on all sides felt unable to vote in all conscience for May's Bad Deal or Johnson's Hard Brexit Even Worse Deal, both which will devastate lives already at rock bottom after 10 years of Tory austerity.

I look at it now as the Tories have turned into the Hard Brexit party and the Lib Dems the Hard Remain party. Only Labour are trying to seek the centre ground because Leave or Remain we have to heal the divisions Brexit has caused. I believe that a majority of moderate Leavers alos feel a Hard brexit is probably bad and would accept a softer Brexit. And many moderate Remainers recognise there may be a form of Brexit they could live with, just to get it over with - so that we can get on with fixing the country.

This is surely the only way forward now? I believe Labour CAN negotiate a credible Brexit that protects jobs, the economy, the environment and human rights. And if Labour are elected and that sensible Brexit Deal is negotiated I would probably vote for it, even as a Remainer in the last election. Because we absolutely must move on now and being 'right' or 'wrong' is not the issue. Our country is on its knees and five more years of Tory government is the worst outcome, beyond all imagining for me.

I hope this helps - and that you know that I would never insult yours or anyone's intelligence by the way.
It appears you and I are many miles apart on agreeing on this. I believe in democracy, and as such believe we should abide by the referendum. But JC wants another referendum because he didn't like the result of the first one. Can you say that is the democratic way.
You obviously follow the thoughts of JC,  I also try to follow the lead of JC, but I am pretty sure your JC and mine are not  one and the same.
wanderer
wanderer
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 210
Join date : 2019-08-04

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Nostalgic on 2019-11-18, 10:47 pm

So Wanderer, in  your balanced view of democracy and faithful support of the referendum result, what are your thoughts on the misrepresentations and outside interference by Russian government and US citizen Robert Mercer in the brexit vote?
 

Maybe this will help as well: https://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/07/26/who-funded-brexit/
avatar
Nostalgic
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 4301
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 81
Location : Auckland NZ

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Hieronymus on 2019-11-18, 11:35 pm

wanderer wrote:
Hieronymus wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:I think H my gripe more than anything else is the country voted to leave the EU a democratic decision end of. JC want to undermine that by another referendum if labour win, i dont get it the country has spoken why does he no abide by that decision? I voted leave and a big factor in that was so we could close our borders and control immigration. JC wants practically free movement if we leave. JC hates a nuclear deterrent but i am not naive enough to think he will get his way as the Labour party endorses it.
H i value all comments in fact i asked for them  Smile am i wrong in what i am saying though?
On the surface it looks simple, but as we have discovered, Brexit is far more complex than it ever seemed on that date in June in 2016.

I strongly believe that MPs are elected for the protection and betterment of the people they represent, but they must also always think what is best for the country as a whole. Sometimes those things conflict and Brexit has produced a conflict so huge it is actually a constitutional crisis. That is why Parliament has not been able to reach a consensus on a deal for leaving the EU.

Just to be clear JC is not committed to free movement (not that this is reported in Daily Heil) and is very much for the protection of UK workers rights, He does believe foreign nationals living here, working, contributing and paying taxes should have protection and right to remain. I agree with him. Friends of my grandchildren are children of a lovely Polish couple - lived and worked here 12 years, both children born here. The family have had letters that they may not be entitled to stay, but they won't know until after Brexit is implemented. So life has been made very difficult for them, and they have been made to feel unwelcome by the country they had come to regard as home, and the only country their children know. So should this man and his family be forced to leave because he and his wife are "immigrants"?

Labour Party Conference did pass a resolution to keep free movement - but the NEC - our Parliament in effect-  does not have to enact it if they feel it is not in the best interests of the Party in the longer term. Only when the manifesto comes out on Thursday will we know what that policy actually is. Given the NHS has a lot of EU workers, and most seasonal workers for our agriculture and food processing industries are from the EU, it is tricky. I heard a woman on the radio just a couple of weeks ago - she was head of the UK Fruit Production Board or something - saying how the lack of workers meant that thousands of tons of apples and soft fruit literally went to waste because they had not enough people to pick them. Because the romanians and others who used to come to do the picking have stopped, due to the hostile environment here and that it was easier to just go to France or Germany and do their seasonal work there. And British workers will not do it instead - because no one here wants work for only 6-8 weeks and then nothing till next year do they? Plus it's hard physical labour and many Brits consider such work beneath them!!

My view is that Labour's position on Brexit (get elected, negotiate better deal within 3 months, put to people's vote within 6 months)  is the only sensible approach given we are at such an impasse. MPs on all sides felt unable to vote in all conscience for May's Bad Deal or Johnson's Hard Brexit Even Worse Deal, both which will devastate lives already at rock bottom after 10 years of Tory austerity.

I look at it now as the Tories have turned into the Hard Brexit party and the Lib Dems the Hard Remain party. Only Labour are trying to seek the centre ground because Leave or Remain we have to heal the divisions Brexit has caused. I believe that a majority of moderate Leavers alos feel a Hard brexit is probably bad and would accept a softer Brexit. And many moderate Remainers recognise there may be a form of Brexit they could live with, just to get it over with - so that we can get on with fixing the country.

This is surely the only way forward now? I believe Labour CAN negotiate a credible Brexit that protects jobs, the economy, the environment and human rights. And if Labour are elected and that sensible Brexit Deal is negotiated I would probably vote for it, even as a Remainer in the last election. Because we absolutely must move on now and being 'right' or 'wrong' is not the issue. Our country is on its knees and five more years of Tory government is the worst outcome, beyond all imagining for me.

I hope this helps - and that you know that I would never insult yours or anyone's intelligence by the way.
It appears you and I are many miles apart on agreeing on this. I believe in democracy, and as such believe we should abide by the referendum. But JC wants another referendum because he didn't like the result of the first one. Can you say that is the democratic way.
You obviously follow the thoughts of JC,  I also try to follow the lead of JC, but I am pretty sure your JC and mine are not  one and the same.
Jeremy Corbyn has long been against the federalisation of Europe and I believe personally he supports implementation of the EU referendum (Leaving) but not without a decent deal, as that would trash the UK economy. The fact that the doom that has been predicted for a No-deal Brexit so far has not happened is because we have not yet left without a deal!

Our Party as a whole though voted at Conference for a Labour Government to negotiate a credible Brexit deal, and to hold a second confirmatory referendum, or the option to remain, wthin 6 months of us taking office. Mr Corbyn did not even have a vote on that decision, not being a delegate to Conference.

So, if we are comparing democratic credentials, I prefer to support the man who abides by the democratic wish of his Party, even against his personal beliefs, rather than a man who tried to close down Parliament - illegally and anti-democratically - in order to prevent proper scrutiny of his Brexit bill. Of course that is not just my view, it was the unanimous opinion of 11 Supreme Court Judges who stated:


"The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions ... The effect upon the fundamentals of our democracy was extreme. No justification for taking action with such an extreme effect has been put before the court"

In previous governments this would have meant resignation. But of course Johnson has no honour.

As for the other JC - I was never really a fan of Top Gear.
Hieronymus
Hieronymus
Admin Problem Solver
Admin Problem Solver

Posts : 10246
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 63

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-11-19, 1:10 am

Hieronymus wrote:......

As for the other JC - I was never really a fan of Top Gear.
Very good  rof rof rof

________________________________________________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]     [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Black Cat Kiwi
Black Cat Kiwi
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 10571
Join date : 2012-08-01
Age : 101
Location : Godzone

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  wanderer on 2019-11-19, 8:31 am

Hieronymus wrote:
wanderer wrote:
Hieronymus wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:I think H my gripe more than anything else is the country voted to leave the EU a democratic decision end of. JC want to undermine that by another referendum if labour win, i dont get it the country has spoken why does he no abide by that decision? I voted leave and a big factor in that was so we could close our borders and control immigration. JC wants practically free movement if we leave. JC hates a nuclear deterrent but i am not naive enough to think he will get his way as the Labour party endorses it.
H i value all comments in fact i asked for them  Smile am i wrong in what i am saying though?
On the surface it looks simple, but as we have discovered, Brexit is far more complex than it ever seemed on that date in June in 2016.

I strongly believe that MPs are elected for the protection and betterment of the people they represent, but they must also always think what is best for the country as a whole. Sometimes those things conflict and Brexit has produced a conflict so huge it is actually a constitutional crisis. That is why Parliament has not been able to reach a consensus on a deal for leaving the EU.

Just to be clear JC is not committed to free movement (not that this is reported in Daily Heil) and is very much for the protection of UK workers rights, He does believe foreign nationals living here, working, contributing and paying taxes should have protection and right to remain. I agree with him. Friends of my grandchildren are children of a lovely Polish couple - lived and worked here 12 years, both children born here. The family have had letters that they may not be entitled to stay, but they won't know until after Brexit is implemented. So life has been made very difficult for them, and they have been made to feel unwelcome by the country they had come to regard as home, and the only country their children know. So should this man and his family be forced to leave because he and his wife are "immigrants"?

Labour Party Conference did pass a resolution to keep free movement - but the NEC - our Parliament in effect-  does not have to enact it if they feel it is not in the best interests of the Party in the longer term. Only when the manifesto comes out on Thursday will we know what that policy actually is. Given the NHS has a lot of EU workers, and most seasonal workers for our agriculture and food processing industries are from the EU, it is tricky. I heard a woman on the radio just a couple of weeks ago - she was head of the UK Fruit Production Board or something - saying how the lack of workers meant that thousands of tons of apples and soft fruit literally went to waste because they had not enough people to pick them. Because the romanians and others who used to come to do the picking have stopped, due to the hostile environment here and that it was easier to just go to France or Germany and do their seasonal work there. And British workers will not do it instead - because no one here wants work for only 6-8 weeks and then nothing till next year do they? Plus it's hard physical labour and many Brits consider such work beneath them!!

My view is that Labour's position on Brexit (get elected, negotiate better deal within 3 months, put to people's vote within 6 months)  is the only sensible approach given we are at such an impasse. MPs on all sides felt unable to vote in all conscience for May's Bad Deal or Johnson's Hard Brexit Even Worse Deal, both which will devastate lives already at rock bottom after 10 years of Tory austerity.

I look at it now as the Tories have turned into the Hard Brexit party and the Lib Dems the Hard Remain party. Only Labour are trying to seek the centre ground because Leave or Remain we have to heal the divisions Brexit has caused. I believe that a majority of moderate Leavers alos feel a Hard brexit is probably bad and would accept a softer Brexit. And many moderate Remainers recognise there may be a form of Brexit they could live with, just to get it over with - so that we can get on with fixing the country.

This is surely the only way forward now? I believe Labour CAN negotiate a credible Brexit that protects jobs, the economy, the environment and human rights. And if Labour are elected and that sensible Brexit Deal is negotiated I would probably vote for it, even as a Remainer in the last election. Because we absolutely must move on now and being 'right' or 'wrong' is not the issue. Our country is on its knees and five more years of Tory government is the worst outcome, beyond all imagining for me.

I hope this helps - and that you know that I would never insult yours or anyone's intelligence by the way.
It appears you and I are many miles apart on agreeing on this. I believe in democracy, and as such believe we should abide by the referendum. But JC wants another referendum because he didn't like the result of the first one. Can you say that is the democratic way.
You obviously follow the thoughts of JC,  I also try to follow the lead of JC, but I am pretty sure your JC and mine are not  one and the same.
Jeremy Corbyn has long been against the federalisation of Europe and I believe personally he supports implementation of the EU referendum (Leaving) but not without a decent deal, as that would trash the UK economy. The fact that the doom that has been predicted for a No-deal Brexit so far has not happened is because we have not yet left without a deal!

Our Party as a whole though voted at Conference for a Labour Government to negotiate a credible Brexit deal, and to hold a second confirmatory referendum, or the option to remain, wthin 6 months of us taking office. Mr Corbyn did not even have a vote on that decision, not being a delegate to Conference.

So, if we are comparing democratic credentials, I prefer to support the man who abides by the democratic wish of his Party, even against his personal beliefs, rather than a man who tried to close down Parliament - illegally and anti-democratically - in order to prevent proper scrutiny of his Brexit bill. Of course that is not just my view, it was the unanimous opinion of 11 Supreme Court Judges who stated:


"The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions ... The effect upon the fundamentals of our democracy was extreme. No justification for taking action with such an extreme effect has been put before the court"

In previous governments this would have meant resignation. But of course Johnson has no honour.

As for the other JC - I was never really a fan of Top Gear.
Thanks for the reply,mostly expected other than the cheap attempt at humour at the end. If this is the real you then it shows how far the labour party have fallen in their choice of candidate for a general election.
wanderer
wanderer
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 210
Join date : 2019-08-04

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  cyprussyd on 2019-11-19, 8:31 am

Black Cat Kiwi wrote:
Hieronymus wrote:......

As for the other JC - I was never really a fan of Top Gear.
Very good  rof rof rof
Not a fan either but I do like him on who wants to be a millionaire.

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
cyprussyd
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 49900
Join date : 2012-07-31
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  wanderer on 2019-11-19, 8:35 am

Nostalgic wrote:So Wanderer, in  your balanced view of democracy and faithful support of the referendum result, what are your thoughts on the misrepresentations and outside interference by Russian government and US citizen Robert Mercer in the brexit vote?
 

Maybe this will help as well: https://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/07/26/who-funded-brexit/
Correct me if I am wrong but I assumed it was the people of Britain who voted in the referendum. Not Mercer or any of the Russian government.
wanderer
wanderer
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 210
Join date : 2019-08-04

Back to top Go down

What do i do? Empty Re: What do i do?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum