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Post  wanderer on 2019-10-05, 5:42 pm

A while back I said that if we were not top 2 or within 2 points of top, quarter way through the season ( 11 games  ) then my patience with Ross would lessen very fast.
Well Jack 8 points behind top and only have a game in hand over 1 team above us. Not looking very good is it. I think its very plain to see, with him in charge we are getting worse and worse week by week.
Do the decent thing and go.
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Post  Kipper on 2019-10-05, 5:55 pm

wanderer wrote:A while back I said that if we were not top 2 or within 2 points of top, quarter way through the season ( 11 games  ) then my patience with Ross would lessen very fast.
Well Jack 8 points behind top and only have a game in hand over 1 team above us. Not looking very good is it. I think its very plain to see, with him in charge we are getting worse and worse week by week.
Do the decent thing and go.
Must admit I'm wavering
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Post  wanderer on 2019-10-05, 5:58 pm

Kipper wrote:
wanderer wrote:A while back I said that if we were not top 2 or within 2 points of top, quarter way through the season ( 11 games  ) then my patience with Ross would lessen very fast.
Well Jack 8 points behind top and only have a game in hand over 1 team above us. Not looking very good is it. I think its very plain to see, with him in charge we are getting worse and worse week by week.
Do the decent thing and go.
Must admit I'm wavering
NUDGE,NUDGE Laughing
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Post  trouble_n_stripes on 2019-10-05, 6:40 pm

Wycombe up next in the league hopefully we can turn it around like but then again.....
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Post  paddocklad on 2019-10-05, 8:35 pm

I’ve been very much in the give Ross a chance camp but if we can’t beat Lincoln with the team we have then I think unfortunately changes need to be made,we can’t spend another season in this league and at the moment the way we are playing I can’t see it changing, hope I’m wrong and would be moon to be proved wrong
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Post  fitz on 2019-10-05, 10:58 pm

you can't sack or replace the whole squad and it seems like we are performing worse than last year when we failed to get promoted so something needs to change (and soon)

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Post  Kipper on 2019-10-05, 11:03 pm

Well Syd you moan about no-one posting yet you don't respond to a thread about the manager on which you've had firm opinions in the past. Please stop moaning at us.
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Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-10-06, 2:18 am

Our league position is tethering, saved only this week by those around us. 
Any further failures of this magnitude will see the 30K crowds start to peter out with voracious calls for the bosses head to roll. 
Simply just not collectively good enough by players on this pay scale.

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Post  canary-dave on 2019-10-06, 5:30 am

Kipper wrote:Well Syd you moan about no-one posting yet you don't respond to a thread about the manager on whic6h you've had firm opinions in the past. Please stop moaning at us.

Kipper, I hope you will read Syd's posts regarding leaving Coxhoe and the reasons for it and will then post a public apology to him   like

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Post  Kipper on 2019-10-06, 9:42 am

canary-dave wrote:
Kipper wrote:Well Syd you moan about no-one posting yet you don't respond to a thread about the manager on whic6h you've had firm opinions in the past. Please stop moaning at us.

Kipper, I hope you will read Syd's posts regarding leaving Coxhoe and the reasons for it and will then post a public apology to him   like
Whilst I have every sympathy for Syd and wish him all the best, he found time to come on here and have a go at people for not posting. We all have lives outside of this forum.

Syd  - hope everything works out
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Post  Vincemac on 2019-10-06, 9:52 am

Kipper wrote:
canary-dave wrote:
Kipper wrote:Well Syd you moan about no-one posting yet you don't respond to a thread about the manager on whic6h you've had firm opinions in the past. Please stop moaning at us.

Kipper, I hope you will read Syd's posts regarding leaving Coxhoe and the reasons for it and will then post a public apology to him   like
Whilst I have every sympathy for Syd and wish him all the best, he found time to come on here and have a go at people for not posting. We all have lives outside of this forum.

Syd  - hope everything works out
I don’t see how you can question Syd.
He’s having it tough at the moment 
This site would be no more if it wasn’t for Syd and his time 
If you say things like that
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-10-06, 11:02 am

You are correct Kipper and yes I did have a moan about the forum being deserted and yes I found time for that.

I also note the reason for many not being on the forum is the busy lives they lead and that's fine. My thinking is simple, if we have a forum where the majority are to busy to post then is it worth having the forum?

On Ross I simply see no point at all in sacking the manager right now and I certainly dont blame him for yesterday, that was all down to the players from the little I saw.

In the past we have appointed..

Martin O'Neil, a proven manager and fans favourite.
David Moyes, the choice of many
Simon Grayson, said by many to have a great record at Championship level.

All failed so changing manager is anything but a guarantee of success.

IMO and thats all it is, better the devil you know right now, time to stick together and trust the owner to do what is right.

I also get annoyed at the hypocrisy, last seasons player of the season is now shit, out of form and in need of a spell on the bench yes, shit no.

The king Maguire, again I read how he and others are shit.

We need a big improvement and to get back to winning, I will do my bit to help that.

We now have a two week break and I intend to take that away from the forum.


From Jack
In what is proving to be a fiercely competitive League One, the Black Cats already find themselves eight points adrift of league leaders Ipswich Town, who extended their winning streak to four games.
Just four points separate Fleetwood Town in third and Shrewsbury Town in 12th, with misfiring Sunderland sitting 6th in the final play-off spot after their second loss of the season.
Sunderland were second best and didn’t deserve anything at Lincoln, a Jon McLaughlin own goal followed by Tyler Walker’s clinical second.


Ross is coming under intensive fire and pressure from a frustrated fanbase, with a significant section now calling for him to be sacked.

When quizzed on the eight-point gap to top spot, Ross said: “We want to be challenging for promotion so we can’t say that that is okay.


“We need to be winning games.
“It’s not just about the defeat because we could have come here, played well, and lost, but it’s the manner of it.
“It’s probably as disappointing as I have seen us. It’s very obvious to say that we need to do so much better than that to win games in this league."
Ross added: “I take pride in what I have done here in management and in the teams I have put out on the park and there have only been a very few occasions in which I have been as disappointed as this.
“I keep saying ‘me’, because it is my responsibility - I keep protecting my players from it, because it is me. It is my job to make them better than that and they weren’t good.”


Ross was facing the brunt of the criticism but the performance of the Sunderland players left a lot to be desired, the players performing well below their usual levels.
So where does the responsibility lie?
Ross added: “It’s a good question, but I will take responsibility. I’ve done it all the time as a manager.
“People will make up their own mind on that but it is my team.
“The scrutiny that falls upon managers now is huge. How much you can influence it is debatable but ultimately it all falls on your shoulders.


“You have time with them before the game, you have time with them at half-time, you have time with them through the week, so it’s your preparation, your motivation, and your man management with them.
“When it’s reflected in that manner, it’s embarrassing for me - for me, not the players, for me.
“The players can answer for themselves, I’m talking about for me. I take pride in my work and that’s embarrassing for me.”

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Post  Sid MCFC on 2019-10-06, 11:22 am

I’ll try and lighten up the mood.

I’ve got a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale stuck in my foot.  The Doctor said don’t worry about it, it’s just an ingrowing toon nail.

I’ll get my coat   Embarassed
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Post  wanderer on 2019-10-06, 11:33 am

cyprussyd wrote:You are correct Kipper and yes I did have a moan about the forum being deserted and yes I found time for that.

I also note the reason for many not being on the forum is the busy lives they lead and that's fine. My thinking is simple, if we have a forum where the majority are to busy to post then is it worth having the forum?

On Ross I simply see no point at all in sacking the manager right now and I certainly dont blame him for yesterday, that was all down to the players from the little I saw.

In the past we have appointed..

Martin O'Neil, a proven manager and fans favourite.
David Moyes, the choice of many
Simon Grayson, said by many to have a great record at Championship level.

All failed so changing manager is anything but a guarantee of success.

IMO and thats all it is, better the devil you know right now, time to stick together and trust the owner to do what is right.

I also get annoyed at the hypocrisy, last seasons player of the season is now shit, out of form and in need of a spell on the bench yes, shit no.

The king Maguire, again I read how he and others are shit.

We need a big improvement and to get back to winning, I will do my bit to help that.

We now have a two week break and I intend to take that away from the forum.


From Jack
In what is proving to be a fiercely competitive League One, the Black Cats already find themselves eight points adrift of league leaders Ipswich Town, who extended their winning streak to four games.
Just four points separate Fleetwood Town in third and Shrewsbury Town in 12th, with misfiring Sunderland sitting 6th in the final play-off spot after their second loss of the season.
Sunderland were second best and didn’t deserve anything at Lincoln, a Jon McLaughlin own goal followed by Tyler Walker’s clinical second.


Ross is coming under intensive fire and pressure from a frustrated fanbase, with a significant section now calling for him to be sacked.

When quizzed on the eight-point gap to top spot, Ross said: “We want to be challenging for promotion so we can’t say that that is okay.


“We need to be winning games.
“It’s not just about the defeat because we could have come here, played well, and lost, but it’s the manner of it.
“It’s probably as disappointing as I have seen us. It’s very obvious to say that we need to do so much better than that to win games in this league."
Ross added: “I take pride in what I have done here in management and in the teams I have put out on the park and there have only been a very few occasions in which I have been as disappointed as this.
“I keep saying ‘me’, because it is my responsibility - I keep protecting my players from it, because it is me. It is my job to make them better than that and they weren’t good.”


Ross was facing the brunt of the criticism but the performance of the Sunderland players left a lot to be desired, the players performing well below their usual levels.
So where does the responsibility lie?
Ross added: “It’s a good question, but I will take responsibility. I’ve done it all the time as a manager.
“People will make up their own mind on that but it is my team.
“The scrutiny that falls upon managers now is huge. How much you can influence it is debatable but ultimately it all falls on your shoulders.


“You have time with them before the game, you have time with them at half-time, you have time with them through the week, so it’s your preparation, your motivation, and your man management with them.
“When it’s reflected in that manner, it’s embarrassing for me - for me, not the players, for me.
“The players can answer for themselves, I’m talking about for me. I take pride in my work and that’s embarrassing for me.”
Well if you are proud of getting YOUR team into this state, we ( our numbers are swelling ) are certainly not.
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Post  Argus on 2019-10-06, 12:21 pm

'... Well if you are proud of getting YOUR team into this state, we (our numbers are swelling ) are certainly not...'

Wanderer, we are all concerned but why twist words??

I think if you re-read the article that you will see that is very clearly NOT what JR said.

In fact what he said is[size=16][size=13] ...[size=16][size=13]“The players can answer for themselves, I’m talking about for me. I take pride in my work and that’s embarrassing for me....” in other words he too is concerned with the performance.[/size][/size][/size][/size]

We are all desperate for success but let's not fall too quickly into the old routine of 'sack the manager'. How many times do we need reminding that we've probably had more managers in recent years than most clubs and it hasn't made any difference - stability has not been our partner for a long while.

I don't have the answer to our problems but I am sure the board will be giving the matter some serious thought and that's good enough for me.

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Post  wanderer on 2019-10-06, 12:31 pm

Argus wrote:'... Well if you are proud of getting YOUR team into this state, we (our numbers are swelling ) are certainly not...'

Wanderer, we are all concerned but why twist words??

I think if you re-read the article that you will see that is very clearly NOT what JR said.

In fact what he said is[size=16][size=13] ...[size=16][size=13]“The players can answer for themselves, I’m talking about for me. I take pride in my work and that’s embarrassing for me....” in other words he too is concerned with the performance.[/size][/size][/size][/size]

We are all desperate for success but let's not fall too quickly into the old routine of 'sack the manager'. How many times do we need reminding that we've probably had more managers in recent years than most clubs and it hasn't made any difference - stability has not been our partner for a long while.

I don't have the answer to our problems but I am sure the board will be giving the matter some serious thought and that's good enough for me.
Are you saying you would be happy for the board to let him continue in this state we are in.
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Post  Argus on 2019-10-06, 2:16 pm

wanderer wrote:
Argus wrote:'... Well if you are proud of getting YOUR team into this state, we (our numbers are swelling ) are certainly not...'

Wanderer, we are all concerned but why twist words??

I think if you re-read the article that you will see that is very clearly NOT what JR said.

In fact what he said is[size=16][size=13] ...[size=16][size=13]“The players can answer for themselves, I’m talking about for me. I take pride in my work and that’s embarrassing for me....” in other words he too is concerned with the performance.[/size][/size][/size][/size]

We are all desperate for success but let's not fall too quickly into the old routine of 'sack the manager'. How many times do we need reminding that we've probably had more managers in recent years than most clubs and it hasn't made any difference - stability has not been our partner for a long while.

I don't have the answer to our problems but I am sure the board will be giving the matter some serious thought and that's good enough for me.
Are you saying you would be happy for the board to let him continue in this state we are in.

Wanderer, you seem to miss the point of my response.

I was merely pointing out that your comment was based on what you wanted to read into JR's comment, NOT on what he actually said. I think there's a good chance that he's probably angrier than you at the moment.

As far as your latest comment goes, I really don't our 'current state' as being particularly bad, since we are in 6th spot and 4 points behind the 2nd team. For a team that has not yet really performed this season, I can only see this as encouraging, though I may change my mind if performances don't improve by December.

You ask if I'm happy for the board to let JR continue and the answer is simple. Like most fans, I have no influence whatsoever over board decisions and since they have a lot more to lose than me I believe they will always take the necessary action to rectify problems. I'm happy with their management of the club over the past 15 months and I see no reason to question their ability today. Perhaps you should show a little more patience.

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Post  fitz on 2019-10-06, 2:33 pm

it is tricky with managers, I actually think that they make relatively little difference - maybe they can add or subtract 5-10% across a season - enough to make some difference but the vast majroty of the team's performance comes from the players and let's face it there is not a huge amount of quality out there on the pitch - this is a team that was humiliated in the premier league and the championship and has hardly set L1 on fire and that has been depleted from those time rather than strengthened - so while we could (and maybe should) replace the manager I don't see it making much of any difference to results - how much difference did it make swapping from Grayson to Coleman? 

the problem is, as I already said so apologies for repeating myself, that you cannot sack 20 players and bring in a whole new squad so what can we do at this point other than look at the coaching staff?

managers get way too much credit for a team's success and way too much blame for its failings but that's the job unfortunately

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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-10-06, 5:35 pm

fitz wrote:it is tricky with managers, I actually think that they make relatively little difference - maybe they can add or subtract 5-10% across a season - enough to make some difference but the vast majroty of the team's performance comes from the players and let's face it there is not a huge amount of quality out there on the pitch - this is a team that was humiliated in the premier league and the championship and has hardly set L1 on fire and that has been depleted from those time rather than strengthened - so while we could (and maybe should) replace the manager I don't see it making much of any difference to results - how much difference did it make swapping from Grayson to Coleman? 

the problem is, as I already said so apologies for repeating myself, that you cannot sack 20 players and bring in a whole new squad so what can we do at this point other than look at the coaching staff?

managers get way too much credit for a team's success and way too much blame for its failings but that's the job unfortunately
Very good post - never really thought about it that way but you are right. Probably the only managers in my lifetime that have made a consistent difference to the teams they managed were Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger and even they lost their mojo by the last few years.

So sack or not is ikely to not make much difference in the longer term - but it may make a difference in the short term - we have seen that often enough with players making sure they up their game when trying too impress a new man in charge.

I have said it before that we are not far away but we are missing the leadership qualities of a Cattermole (I know, I know!) on the pitch. Too many relying on the tactics they have practiced in training working. When they don't our players cannot think on their feet and make things happen. But I guess that is also down to the manager - if he has said play this way and if you don't you are out of the team what are they going to do?

I am leaning more towards Ross leaving if I am honest - because there is only one imperative this season and that is promotion - and our current performamces are too inconsistent to achieve that.

Wonder if Roy Keane fancies a new (old!) challenge? Very Happy
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Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-10-06, 8:33 pm

Lighten up, the greatest self acclaimed are only a couple of points above relegation....lol

Ps. H - Cattts was more organised of the pitch  Wink

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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-10-06, 9:00 pm

Black Cat Kiwi wrote:Lighten up, the greatest self acclaimed are only a couple of points above relegation....lol

Ps. H - Cattts was more organised of the pitch  Wink
Unfortunately the win vs Man Utd today put Everton in bottom three - Mr H is not a happy man Very Happy
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Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-10-06, 9:19 pm

Hieronymus wrote:
Black Cat Kiwi wrote:Lighten up, the TWO greatest self acclaimed are only a couple of points above relegation....lol

Ps. H - Cattts was more organised off the pitch  Wink
Unfortunately the win vs Man Utd today put Everton in bottom three - Mr H is not a happy man Very Happy
Corrections......

Now, where's the Tramadol to top off my espresso  lol!

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Post  oxfordshire on 2019-10-07, 8:01 am

If I remember correctly H Alex Ferguson had a shocking first couple of years at Man U.
If you are still up for the match v tranmere, do we buy tickets individually and meet up before?
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Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-10-07, 8:04 am

oxfordshire wrote:If I remember correctly H Alex Ferguson had a shocking first couple of years at Man U.
If you are still up for the match v tranmere, do we buy tickets individually and meet up before?
Wrap up Mate, you'll be freezing away from home  Shocked

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Post  oxfordshire on 2019-10-07, 8:20 am

It was very interesting on saturday to see the grass roots side of a football club watching my grandson play for oxford united under 16s academy side. They won against cheltenham 9 - 1 and he scored 2. Their training ground is very new  and very basic. My grandson spends one school day per week at the ground and 4 nights per week. He will know in december if he is retained.
From what I gather, safc have great advantages over the oxfords of this world who pay rent for the stadium and are not exclusive tenants. I am seeing oxford play Portsmouth tomorrow night and then sunderland v tranmere in 2 weeks. It will be an interesting comparison.
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