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Post  oldblackcat on 2019-06-09, 10:37 am

At the start of last season Stewart Donald had remarked that the better we did in the cup competitions the more revenue we would generate (obviously) which would enable him to make more funds available to the manager should he require them.Although picking strong teams in the Carabao Cup and the FA Cup we didn't get far crashing out in the 1st round and 2nd round (after a replay) respectfully.The Checkatrade Trophy was a different kettle of fish however as we made it to the final, and until the latter rounds of this competition about half the team were youth players but we generated extra income as we did in the play-off final.

Anyway my question is even though we are supposed to be in the process of getting new investment in,is do we....

A....  Still give it our best shot in every cup competition to generate as much cash as we can as we'll need it if we're promoted

B....  Just give it our best shot in the Checkatrade Trophy as it's the only one we'll have a chance to win

C....  Fob them all off  forget about extra revenue and concentrate on Promotion

I know toward the end of last season we were playing 2 games a week to catch up in the league due to cup games,postponements due to international call ups and an abandoned game v Accrington and some fans believed this contributed on failure to be promoted, but if we add few better players to the squad we should be in a better position to cope this season and I think we still need to maximise income even if we get new investment..... so answer A is my prefered option
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Post  Hieronymus on 2019-06-09, 10:53 am

Good post.

My tendency is towards C if I am honest - Promotion has to be the only serious target this year.

I do think the number of games at end of the season plust the Checkatrade Wembley hangover did affect us in the run in and we cannot allow that to happen again.
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Post  Sid MCFC on 2019-06-09, 11:05 am

It’s a good question OBC. One that owners, managers, players and fans of all clubs have had to ponder throughout the years.  There is a suspicion that even Liverpool sacrificed the two domestic cups to concentrate on the prem and CL last season.

No matter which way you jump it’s still a massive gamble as we all know ‘football is football’

Personally I agree with you as I it would be so demoralising for players and more importantly the fans paying good money to go to a match to watch squad players and youngsters being sacrificed for the bigger picture that might not even happen.

One things for certain though, whichever route the manager takes he’s likely to be criticised.  I pity them really as it’s hard enough being a fan.
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Post  barrowmackem on 2019-06-09, 3:10 pm

We may have generated money from the checkatrade but that profit was swallowed up by missing out on promotion and more. Simple, and i'm with H on this, promotion at all costs. Saying that I am quite happy watching SAFC at the moment but I suppose with no goal there wouldn't be much point.

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Post  fitz on 2019-06-09, 5:50 pm

Cup revenues are (in the greater scheme) irrelevant when compared to the TV revenues that come from progressing up the divisions - though in reality even they are largely irrelevant compared to the sorts of sums that you need to be competitive - you need ownership that is willing to plough in serious sums of money or you need a steady procession of players that you can flip for big money - neither seems likely sadly.

A league one club earns a basic award of around £750,000 and a solidarity payment of around £700,000 with TV earnings being around £30,000 for hosting a televised home game and £10,000 for an away one, so Sunderland will have made around £1.5m (not taking into account gate receipts).

Just by way of comparison last season Leeds Utd will have earned around £8m

In Sunderland's final season in the premiership it made around £100m! So it would take a good Championship side (not getting parachute payments) 13 seasons to earn the same revenue as the worst premiership sides.

The difference is just insane and the main reason why football is broken as it stands (as their are some clubs spending more than £100m on a single player and that is before their enormous wages!)

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Post  MrRAWhite on 2019-06-09, 7:31 pm

We should always go out to win every game we play in.

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Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2019-06-10, 11:21 pm

Promotion & nothing else.

Use Cups to blood contracted U23/19's with more than a year left so that a definitive assessment can be made of them.

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Post  Kipper on 2019-06-11, 8:54 am

Black Cat Kiwi wrote:Promotion & nothing else.

Use Cups to blood contracted U23/19's with more than a year left so that a definitive assessment can be made of them.

I'm with you on this. I thought we could do both last year and we nearly did. This time round, nothing should come in the way of our promotion efforts.
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Post  Lever Malone on 2019-06-11, 3:35 pm

In 1998 we lost in the Play Off Final to Charlton but in 1998/99 season in the 1st Division we had one of the best seasons in the history of SAFC. We only lost 3 games (and two of those we shouldn't have lost). We ended the season with 105 points and scored 91 goals. So let's hope history can repeat itself once again.

Incidentally, that season, we also reached the league cup semi final. Losing 2 - 3 to Leicester on aggregate.
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Post  gil t azell on 2019-06-11, 7:13 pm

MrRAWhite wrote:We should always go out to win every game we play in.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-06-12, 9:05 am

To say we should go out to win every game is the easy answer but Ross cant simply look at the easy answer, he needs to look at many things and it seems that the owners, fans and players are focused on one thing, promotion.

Its not all about cash its about attracting the best players and next summer given the choice I would suggest the better players will join a Championship club before the Checkatrade Trophy winners.

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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-06-12, 8:57 pm

Being where we are for a second season will doubtless make more difficult anything better than we have now unless a healthy contract with incentives is offered to has been's or potential youth better than we have now.  Losing out in the playoffs has condemned us for a five year rebuild with home grown players as we did under Alan brown's first reign.  

Not me being negative, just seen what happens when there is limited funds and we are unattractive in a bidding market.
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Post  Kipper on 2019-06-13, 10:54 am

Nostalgic wrote:Being where we are for a second season will doubtless make more difficult anything better than we have now unless a healthy contract with incentives is offered to has been's or potential youth better than we have now.  Losing out in the playoffs has condemned us for a five year rebuild with home grown players as we did under Alan brown's first reign.  

Not me being negative, just seen what happens when there is limited funds and we are unattractive in a bidding market.

I'd say we're one of the most if not the most attractive League one clubs for players to come to. Had we achieved mid table mediocrity or worse then I'd take your point. I don't need to list all the good things about Sunderland but on top of that we're still going to be seen as a promotion favourite - something the right sort of players may be attracted to.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2019-06-13, 2:44 pm

Kipper wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:Being where we are for a second season will doubtless make more difficult anything better than we have now unless a healthy contract with incentives is offered to has been's or potential youth better than we have now.  Losing out in the playoffs has condemned us for a five year rebuild with home grown players as we did under Alan brown's first reign.  

Not me being negative, just seen what happens when there is limited funds and we are unattractive in a bidding market.

I'd say we're one of the most if not the most attractive League one clubs for players to come to. Had we achieved mid table mediocrity or worse then I'd take your point. I don't need to list all the good things about Sunderland but on top of that we're still going to be seen as a promotion favourite - something the right sort of players may be attracted to.
And I would only add that I am puzzled with the limited funds bit, even without the new investment we are far from limited in funds.

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Post  Nostalgic on 2019-06-13, 11:58 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
Kipper wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:Being where we are for a second season will doubtless make more difficult anything better than we have now unless a healthy contract with incentives is offered to has been's or potential youth better than we have now.  Losing out in the playoffs has condemned us for a five year rebuild with home grown players as we did under Alan brown's first reign.  

Not me being negative, just seen what happens when there is limited funds and we are unattractive in a bidding market.

I'd say we're one of the most if not the most attractive League one clubs for players to come to. Had we achieved mid table mediocrity or worse then I'd take your point. I don't need to list all the good things about Sunderland but on top of that we're still going to be seen as a promotion favourite - something the right sort of players may be attracted to.
And I would only add that I am puzzled with the limited funds bit, even without the new investment we are far from limited in funds.
Limited funds meaning how much we are willing to spend to ensure promotion.  What we can't escape is that we are not very attractive for a better quality of player so it will have to resort to offering a lengthy contract with wages to match the going rate in the championship at least, and how many players do we need to dominate this league?  Two at least, three ideally.

A good few of our signings this time last year were freebies or third tier quality and they defined our season.  Most are still under contract so their wages will have to be factored in to our budget before we look at what is left.  Everybody and his dog knows, or thinks, we are still rich so the price for any player we bid for will be upped as it was with Grigg, the player will probably seek a four year contract and so it goes on. Signing people last season was a no-brainer, looking two seasons ahead and making the right signings needs more thought and inevitably, money.
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Post  Kipper on 2019-06-14, 8:28 am

Nostalgic wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:
Kipper wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:Being where we are for a second season will doubtless make more difficult anything better than we have now unless a healthy contract with incentives is offered to has been's or potential youth better than we have now.  Losing out in the playoffs has condemned us for a five year rebuild with home grown players as we did under Alan brown's first reign.  

Not me being negative, just seen what happens when there is limited funds and we are unattractive in a bidding market.

I'd say we're one of the most if not the most attractive League one clubs for players to come to. Had we achieved mid table mediocrity or worse then I'd take your point. I don't need to list all the good things about Sunderland but on top of that we're still going to be seen as a promotion favourite - something the right sort of players may be attracted to.
And I would only add that I am puzzled with the limited funds bit, even without the new investment we are far from limited in funds.
Limited funds meaning how much we are willing to spend to ensure promotion.  What we can't escape is that we are not very attractive for a better quality of player so it will have to resort to offering a lengthy contract with wages to match the going rate in the championship at least, and how many players do we need to dominate this league?  Two at least, three ideally.

A good few of our signings this time last year were freebies or third tier quality and they defined our season.  Most are still under contract so their wages will have to be factored in to our budget before we look at what is left.  Everybody and his dog knows, or thinks, we are still rich so the price for any player we bid for will be upped as it was with Grigg, the player will probably seek a four year contract and so it goes on. Signing people last season was a no-brainer, looking two seasons ahead and making the right signings needs more thought and inevitably, money.
No, sorry, still don't get it. We maybe won't compete against championship clubs for players but we will against our rivals in League 1.
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