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La Liga.

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La Liga.

Post  canary-dave on 2018-11-06, 8:36 pm

Does anybody else find it hilarious that La Liga has called Man. City and PSG cheats for breaching FFP rules?

At least they have both paid fines and received sanctions for it, so many other clubs both here and on the continent have flouted the same rules with impunity.

FFP is virtually unpoliceable in its present form, there are far too many loopholes, it needs to be restructured with clear cut rules with no ambiguity.

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Re: La Liga.

Post  sunderpitt on 2018-11-06, 10:37 pm

Although Leicester did pull off an exceptional victory it was just that an exception.

It is not a surprise that Man City lead the PL since they have bee owned by am oil country they have spent net £1 billion. On players, there wage bill is probably the GDP of a small country.

FFP is as you say a joke!
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Re: La Liga.

Post  canary-dave on 2018-11-07, 5:08 am

sunderpitt wrote:Although Leicester did pull off an exceptional victory it was just that an exception.

It is not a surprise that Man City lead the PL since they have bee owned by am oil country they have spent net £1 billion. On players, there wage bill is probably the GDP of a small country.

FFP is as you say a joke!

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Re: La Liga.

Post  Sid MCFC on 2018-11-07, 10:13 am

It’s difficult to comment fully on this topic as we are talking about a club I’ve supported since a kid but more importantly and don’t want to come across as either a hypocrite or bullshitter.  If you met me face to face and knew my background you would know I’m neither. I can be a t@@t sometimes though.

To put it bluntly myself and many City fans can’t stand Uefa or fifa for that matter. I have a ticket for tonight as I’m in the cup scheme but I won’t be going.

FFP was purportedly brought in to stop bent owners buying a club and ripping the heart out of it and letting them go bust (Portsmouth for example). If that was the only reason then brilliant.  We knew at the time though that it was going to be used against shitty upstart little clubs like City and PSG to try and stop them breaking into the European elite clubs who were in the CL every year as the extra money they got from the competition gave them a head start on teams in their own leagues.

It’s no coincidence that it’s a German newspaper that’s drip feeding this information without producing evidence as yet, nor is it that la Liga have been bitching for several years.  I’m just waiting for the Milan clubs, Utd, Liverpool, and Arsenal to show their outrage.

I haven’t a clue whether City have bent the rules but on this occasion and I really don’t care as I think the rules are neferiously beng used for the wrong reason by the true bent bastards who are scared their ivory towers are crumbling.

I could say a lot more but I’ve got to pop into work which incidentally wouldn’t exist if I hadn’t ploughed all my pension in 20 years ago and ran at a loss for several months.  Luckily my competitors know how business works and aren’t bent.
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Re: La Liga.

Post  sunderpitt on 2018-11-07, 10:41 am

Personally I am probably just jealous. 

Before Man Ciy 'won the lottery ' as it were... our clubs were fairly similar.

I cannot imagine City are doing anything too dodgy. A bit like all the multi-national tech firms etc, who do not pay much tax, there will be many ways legally round any FFP rules.

Obviously if you have a manager, like you do, and he can pick the best players in the world for his squad and meld them into a fantastic team. It's what the Real Madrid do.

China it seems is a place atm that is paying over the odds for talent.

Not sure exactly how American Football works but they try and have a level playing field as it were. Germany I think have fans involved in the ownership of clubs?
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Re: La Liga.

Post  cyprussyd on 2018-11-07, 11:25 am

Being a bit of a simpleton I see things simply, with success comes jealousy and the need for our supposed betters to put us in our place.

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Re: La Liga.

Post  Sid MCFC on 2018-11-07, 3:23 pm

sunderpitt wrote:Personally I am probably just jealous. 

Before Man Ciy 'won the lottery ' as it were... our clubs were fairly similar.

I cannot imagine City are doing anything too dodgy. A bit like all the multi-national tech firms etc, who do not pay much tax, there will be many ways legally round any FFP rules.

Obviously if you have a manager, like you do, and he can pick the best players in the world for his squad and meld them into a fantastic team. It's what the Real Madrid do.

China it seems is a place atm that is paying over the odds for talent.

Not sure exactly how American Football works but they try and have a level playing field as it were. Germany I think have fans involved in the ownership of clubs?
Nothing wrong with being jealous when it concerns football mate.  It wasn’t so many years ago I definitely knew we wouldn’t ever win a trophy again and it didn’t help with our neighbours in Stretford winning all and sundry.  Having said that when Chelsea won the lottery I bloody loved it as they then managed to knock what then was the top two off their perch.

Sadly (and I mean that) I cannot envisage football ever going back to having a level playing field and that’s mostly down to the money involved.  Sky and other investors have seen to that but also the formation of the premier league didn’t help.  It’s not strange that some of the teams that pushed for a premier league now regret it.

I’m assuming you’ve read all this crap about a Euro super league, I mean WHF is all that about.  Embarrassingly enough City are mentioned in that group and if it comes to fruition they can shove my season card up their jacksie.  I understand it’s probably just a ploy to get even more tv money etc and it won’t actually happen but therein lies the problem.  The big boys want it all and sod the lower leagues and grassroots.  Where’s that going to end up Harlem f@cking globe Trotters!!!   No thanks, even Stoke away on a cold Monday night sounds more appealing.

Sorry about the rant Sunders, but one last thing.  When you said our teams were once very similar, they still are mate, well the fans are anyway.Wink
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Re: La Liga.

Post  sunderpitt on 2018-11-07, 4:37 pm

I like your last sentiments.. most fans, even Mags have the same hopes and fears.

Imho I am not sure how a super league would work.. yes some English clubs 'invited' would be in it. So their fans would watch it I.e. TV money.... but how many more fans in the countries involved who are not invited? Low viewing figures?

It could become like the 2nd tier European comp... I personally would not be that bothered as I would be more interested in my own club and the league it operates in. 

The old European Cup where only the league winners could enter... was definitely the business... a proper competition. I reckon the present one with more clubs and mini leagues before knock outs has devalued the prestige of the Comp.

In the suggested one I suppose Leicester wpuld not be included?
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Re: La Liga.

Post  Sid MCFC on 2018-11-07, 5:19 pm

sunderpitt wrote:I like your last sentiments.. most fans, even Mags have the same hopes and fears.

Imho I am not sure how a super league would work.. yes some English clubs 'invited' would be in it. So their fans would watch it I.e. TV money.... but how many more fans in the countries involved who are not invited? Low viewing figures?

It could become like the 2nd tier European comp... I personally would not be that bothered as I would be more interested in my own club and the league it operates in. 

The old European Cup where only the league winners could enter... was definitely the business... a proper competition. I reckon the present one with more clubs and mini leagues before knock outs has devalued the prestige of the Comp.

In the suggested one I suppose Leicester wpuld not be included?
A super league (and I even hate that name) would be horrendous for most fans especially the match going ones.  I’ve been to quite a few matches in Europe but more for a laugh than the competition.  I know it’s all about empire building for these fools but even they can’t be that stupid,  I still think it’s a bargaining chip to gain more of the money pot.  And no, Leicester would not be invited as they are not one of the perceived elite, well in their minds anyway.

I couldn’t agree more about the old European Cup, it was great to watch no matter who was playing.  Even City were in it once, not for long though haha.
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Re: La Liga.

Post  sunderpitt on 2018-11-10, 9:19 am

Manchester derby has been skewed by a decade of Abu Dhabi investment
City were light years behind United when their Emirati owners contested their first derby back in 2008 but their huge – and possibly dubious – investment has turned the tables
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Barney Ronay
Published: 21:00 Fri 9 November 2018
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Oh, what happened to me, whatever happened to you? What became of Robinho – and Benjani? If the rise of Manchester City is anything to go by, all it takes to create an era of generational club football dominance is £2bn, the greatest manager of the modern age and the fevered dreams of an oil-rich Gulf state. It is a 10-year plan that has come into sharper focus this week, in a way that draws the eye back as well as forwards.

Sunday’s Manchester derby at the Etihad Stadium will mark 10 years to the month since the first of these modern Manc clásicos in November 2008, 10 years on from the birth of City 3.0 under the club’s Emirati owners. It feels like an even more poignant anniversary given the sudden focus on those first five years, when a huge standing-start investment was required to ratchet up the playing squad to instant-contender status.

How do you get from there to here? From a team of mismatched likely lads to the current sleekly engineered machine? It remains a good question, and a poignant one at the end of a week when phrases such as Operation Longbow and “closed payment loop” have entered the football vernacular via the continuing leak-based investigations into City’s finances.

Would Pep Guardiola win the title with this Manchester United squad? | Paul Wilson
According to Der Spiegel’s reports the true spend on the team in those first four years was around £1.1bn, a figure that will either draw cheers and high fives or a clutching of the pearls to the throat depending on your view of financial fair play rules and, more likely, your club colours.

At which point the screen dissolves, wind chimes tinkle and we head back almost exactly 10 years to the first of those new-age derbies. By November 2008 City had taken their first baby steps under the ownership of Thaksin Shinawatra, who helped fund a period of energetically mismatched recruitment during his year in charge. The Abu Dhabi takeover was completed on 1 September 2008, awarding Thaksin, who is currently a fugitive from the Thai authorities, a £120m profit in the process.

The first few days of Abu Dhabi ownership were giddy. There was a failed last-ditch bid to gazump United’s move for Dimitar Berbatov. Eager to rid themselves of the terrible burden of disposable income City barfed up £32m for Robinho, just as Chelsea were preparing to start selling shirts with his name on the back.

Robinho would ultimately score 14 goals in English football, moan about the cold and leave a year later for half that fee. But back in November 2008, at the stadium still known as Eastlands, he was the focal point of an aspirational and frankly quite weird front three alongside Benjani and Darius Vassell. Behind him were Stephen Ireland, Shaun Wright-Phillips and Dietmar Hamann. Vincent Kompany started in central defence and remains the only player in either squad likely to feature on Sunday afternoon. City’s bench from that day is a fascinating little memento, awash with fondly recalled Premier League oddities from promising tyro Kasper Schmeichel, to the wonderful Brazilian Elano and the slightly less wonderful Brazilian Jô.


Robinho gets on the ball in the first Manchester derby following Adug’s takeover of the club in 2008. Photograph: Jason Cairnduff/Action Images
United were the reigning champs of Europe. They could field Berbatov, Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney as a front three and still keep Carlos Tevez in reserve. At Eastlands Rooney would score the only goal of the game, tapping in just before half-time after Joe Hart could only parry Michael Carrick’s drive. From that point United were comfortable enough, although Ronaldo was sent off in the second half for a bizarre handball at a corner, a last significant act before he won his first Ballon d’Or three days later.

The result, Rooney said afterwards, reminded everyone “who the real kings of Manchester are”. The BBC agreed, noting that United’s dominance “perfectly illustrated the gulf in class between the two sides that City’s wealthy new owners Abu Dhabi United are hoping to narrow”. Sky Sports was a little more prescient, the web report suggesting “City’s vast wealth makes this a fixture which is sure to be even more keenly fought in the future”.

You don’t say. Fast forward 10 years and that coltish, mismatched City team seems entirely unrelated to the current high-spec model. Sven-Göran Eriksson would later observe that Shinawatra “knew absolutely nothing about football”, and even in those early months the contrast with the irresistible will of the new regime was striking; from the statement-signing of Tevez for £47m seven months later, to the arrival of David Silva and Yaya Touré the year after that.


Sign up to the Fiver.
There has been a clarity to City’s project since then, and a contrast with United’s own wildly oscillating progress post-Ferguson. From the early signs of a coherent playing system being winched into place, to the carefully staged hiring of Pep Guardiola – contract signed a year ahead of time Der Spiegel now tells us – this is a team that always seemed to be heading one way, gearing itself at each stage towards the current version.

Given City’s strength now, even a two-point lead at the top of the Premier League looks like an ominous little kick away from the pack. Chelsea and Liverpool have kept pace so far. But City are still ahead on every metric: most points, most goals, most shots, most dribbles, most possession, best pass accuracy. No one has more assists than Raheem Sterling and Benjamin Mendy. No one has more goals than Sergio Agüero. No one has a higher pass completion rate than John Stones, a stat that feels less meaningless than usual given the tactically vital nature of City’s play from the back.

Manchester City paid Roberto Mancini extra via Abu Dhabi club, claims leak
United have shown a great resilience in the last few weeks, not least on Wednesday night in Turin. But 10 years on from Gulf state D-day it is the visitors whose playing squad still looks a little piecemeal, hurled together by a succession of disconnected regimes.

Going into Sunday’s trip to the Theatre of Dirhams United have still won only once away to last season’s top four in the José Mourinho years. That win was at the Etihad last April when Paul Pogba scored twice, and when Kevin De Bruyne was also absent, coming on only when City were losing. Still, though, the shift in playing strength between these two clubs is still clearest in those central areas, where a United squad packed with tall, angular footballers will engage with City’s fluid, mobile midfield like a platoon of Cybermen chasing a litter of kittens.

United will look to disrupt and sit deep, as they did successfully against Juventus, and to use their own power on the break and from set pieces. But 10 years on it is a mark of changing times, and of the absurdity of big football finances, that a victory for the most profitable football team in the world could almost feel now like a blow struck for the little man.
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Re: La Liga.

Post  Sid MCFC on 2018-11-10, 11:05 am

That last sentence nearly made me puke up.  The established elite thought they would stay on top forever.  We all know football goes round in circles, it’s something that they seemed to have forgotten.
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Re: La Liga.

Post  sunderpitt on 2018-11-10, 11:26 am

Sid MCFC wrote:That last sentence nearly made me puke up.  The established elite thought they would stay on top forever.  We all know football goes round in circles, it’s something that they seemed to have forgotten.

I wondered if the journo is a manure supporter.

The idea that other fans will root for manure as the underdog is a joke.

It is the Glasiers (sp) who are milking the club that is screwing them. How they allowed to buy using the club as security..something I thought was illegal.. I have never figured out
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Re: La Liga.

Post  Gordon Armstrong on 2018-11-10, 11:38 am

I presume that it's just like a mortgage, Pitty, where they borrowed against the security of an asset Wink

I've always like the way that 'United play football, which is much like 'City do now to a certain extent, because they now play what I think of as 'the Arsenal way' (with more bite), but since Whingeing Bastard took over 'United have become so dull and boring that I want them to beaten in every game just to get rid of the arrogant tw*t at the helm Smile


I've always liked 'City and their fans, too, because I've always considered them to be like us . . . . honest, respectful and grounded [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Re: La Liga.

Post  Sid MCFC on 2018-11-10, 11:59 am

sunderpitt wrote:
Sid MCFC wrote:That last sentence nearly made me puke up.  The established elite thought they would stay on top forever.  We all know football goes round in circles, it’s something that they seemed to have forgotten.

I wondered if the journo is a manure supporter.

The idea that other fans will root for manure as the underdog is a joke.

It is the Glasiers (sp) who are milking the club that is screwing them.  How  they allowed to buy using the club as security..something I thought was illegal.. I have never figured out
I suspect you’re correct about who the journalist supports.  Oddly enough I’m gaining a fair degree of satisfaction with their bitterness  Very Happy

I was talking to some Manure fans last night in the pub, one is a decent lad who just accepts things as they are but he’s a season n ticket holder.  Later on I had a ‘discussion’ with another two who were as gobby  and bitter as hell.  I had a go back and it turns out I’ve almost certainly been to OT seeing City more times than they’ve ever been.

I haven’t a clue how it works with the Glaziers, I think the debt is still around the 450 mil mark.  Having said that I quite like them, I hope they stay there forever.
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Post  Sid MCFC on 2018-11-10, 12:03 pm

Gordon Armstrong wrote:I presume that it's just like a mortgage, Pitty, where they borrowed against the security of an asset Wink

I've always like the way that 'United play football, which is much like 'City do now to a certain extent, because they now play what I think of as 'the Arsenal way' (with more bite), but since Whingeing Bastard took over 'United have become so dull and boring that I want them to beaten in every game just to get rid of the arrogant tw*t at the helm Smile


I've always liked 'City and their fans, too, because I've always considered them to be like us . . . . honest, respectful and grounded [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Thank you for saying we are like you.  You’ve put a smile on my face, it a very nice compliment.  like
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