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Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

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Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  sunderpitt on 2018-02-02, 3:30 pm

I have tried checking but I am still not sure.

Short is paying to keep us going.. is the reason if we are insolvent and go into administration debts are written off?
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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Vincemac on 2018-02-02, 3:39 pm

sunderpitt wrote:I have tried checking but I am still not sure.

Short is paying to keep us going.. is the reason if we are insolvent and go into administration debts are written off?
Strange if it does 
He is a billionaire 
He could bail us out but he has washed his hands of us.
I think
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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Nostalgic on 2018-02-02, 5:43 pm

Someone on 606 who is in showbiz has a contact with knowledge of Short and he reported that Short could only allocate about 10% of his business time to us and it was only when he was made aware of the need for more and more finances to keep us afloat that he began to take a closer look and maybe what he found displeased him as a business man.  

As a business man he is no dummy so an analysis of the cause of the problem would have soon identified the problem. As I understood it our expenditure over income was so imbalanced that it would eventually lead to bankruptcy,  Regardless of our opinions of him he apparently has our best interests at heart but sometimes the patient needs drastic treatment before getting well gain.

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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Billy D on 2018-02-02, 6:21 pm

Nostalgic wrote:Someone on 606 who is in showbiz has a contact with knowledge of Short and he reported that Short could only allocate about 10% of his business time to us and it was only when he was made aware of the need for more and more finances to keep us afloat that he began to take a closer look and maybe what he found displeased him as a business man.  

As a business man he is no dummy so an analysis of the cause of the problem would have soon identified the problem. As I understood it our expenditure over income was so imbalanced that it would eventually lead to bankruptcy,  Regardless of our opinions of him he apparently has our best interests at heart but sometimes the patient needs drastic treatment before getting well gain.
He's an asset stripper. That's how he made his billions, making people redundant in the process.
That's what he's doing to our club. The man has no scruples or morals at all.
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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2018-02-02, 11:10 pm

Billy D wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:Someone on 606 who is in showbiz has a contact with knowledge of Short and he reported that Short could only allocate about 10% of his business time to us and it was only when he was made aware of the need for more and more finances to keep us afloat that he began to take a closer look and maybe what he found displeased him as a business man.  

As a business man he is no dummy so an analysis of the cause of the problem would have soon identified the problem. As I understood it our expenditure over income was so imbalanced that it would eventually lead to bankruptcy,  Regardless of our opinions of him he apparently has our best interests at heart but sometimes the patient needs drastic treatment before getting well gain.
He's an asset stripper. That's how he made his billions, making people redundant in the process.
That's what he's doing to our club. The man has no scruples or morals at all.
like  Correct as anyone reading about Wigmore & GTown knows.

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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Nostalgic on 2018-02-03, 3:02 am

Did a quick Wiki check on him and not sure what the asset stripping reference is about unless it is the Korean thing from 2006.

Other than that he seems to be not such a bad chap, but don't tell some of our managers that.

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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Hieronymus on 2018-02-03, 9:05 am

Nostalgic wrote:Did a quick Wiki check on him and not sure what the asset stripping reference is about unless it is the Korean thing from 2006.

Other than that he seems to be not such a bad chap, but don't tell some of our managers that.
Read also here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Note : "Ellis Short has raised $2bn to invest in the European distressed property debt market."  and "Mr Short, whose reputation grew after buying up US bank debt portfolios at Lone Star in the aftermath of the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s."

In English that means he funds the buying up of debt on property where the owners have gone bankrupt, leaving them with nothing, and him and his fellow investors with an asset that can be sold on for profit when the market improves.

Maybe not technically asset stripping but the end result is the same. Some call it good business, buy low, sell high, that is capitalism. I call it morally questionable when the result is people losing their homes and livelihoods. But yes I was one of the many who did not do this research when Short took over, and hindsight is a wonderful thing indeed.

Back to the OP, Short made his billions by buying up distresed property debt, so it is ironic that he has allowed SAFC to fall into this state, ripe for another 'investor in distressed debt' to come along and snap us up at a bargain price. One hopes he is keeping us out of administration deliberately so we can be sold as a going concern.
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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2018-02-03, 9:28 am

Hieronymus wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:Did a quick Wiki check on him and not sure what the asset stripping reference is about unless it is the Korean thing from 2006.

Other than that he seems to be not such a bad chap, but don't tell some of our managers that.
Read also here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Note : "Ellis Short has raised $2bn to invest in the European distressed property debt market."  and "Mr Short, whose reputation grew after buying up US bank debt portfolios at Lone Star in the aftermath of the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s."

In English that means he funds the buying up of debt on property where the owners have gone bankrupt, leaving them with nothing, and him and his fellow investors with an asset that can be sold on for profit when the market improves.

Maybe not technically asset stripping but the end result is the same. Some call it good business, buy low, sell high, that is capitalism. I call it morally questionable when the result is people losing their homes and livelihoods. But yes I was one of the many who did not do this research when Short took over, and hindsight is a wonderful thing indeed.

Back to the OP, Short made his billions by buying up distresed property debt, so it is ironic that he has allowed SAFC to fall into this state, ripe for another 'investor in distressed debt' to come along and snap us up at a bargain price. One hopes he is keeping us out of administration deliberately so we can be sold as a going concern.
Have you done any more reading since the last time you posted?

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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  cyprussyd on 2018-02-03, 9:42 am

All far to technical for me, my questions are simple, can anyone answer?


  1. How much has Short invested in Sunderland?
  2. How much does he pay every month to keep the club afloat?
  3. How much has he taken out?

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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Nostalgic on 2018-02-03, 7:05 pm

Hieronymus wrote:
Nostalgic wrote:Did a quick Wiki check on him and not sure what the asset stripping reference is about unless it is the Korean thing from 2006.

Other than that he seems to be not such a bad chap, but don't tell some of our managers that.
Read also here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Note : "Ellis Short has raised $2bn to invest in the European distressed property debt market."  and "Mr Short, whose reputation grew after buying up US bank debt portfolios at Lone Star in the aftermath of the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s."

In English that means he funds the buying up of debt on property where the owners have gone bankrupt, leaving them with nothing, and him and his fellow investors with an asset that can be sold on for profit when the market improves.

Maybe not technically asset stripping but the end result is the same. Some call it good business, buy low, sell high, that is capitalism. I call it morally questionable when the result is people losing their homes and livelihoods. But yes I was one of the many who did not do this research when Short took over, and hindsight is a wonderful thing indeed.

Back to the OP, Short made his billions by buying up distresed property debt, so it is ironic that he has allowed SAFC to fall into this state, ripe for another 'investor in distressed debt' to come along and snap us up at a bargain price. One hopes he is keeping us out of administration deliberately so we can be sold as a going concern.
So he hasn't bought failing businesses and closed down factories  and seen workers on the dole as suggested by asset stripping. 

In our case then, he bought into us when we were distressed through Drumaville, so now that we are  really distressed we seem to be defying his trend of spotting a long term profit. None the wonder he is wavering of any future investment. What is undeniable however is that he has financially supported various managers and found himself in this predicament. 

I am just grateful that he bought into us years ago and kept us afloat in the Prem for so long by his  managerial changes at the right time and a willingness to financially back his choices.  

I just find it too easy to condemn someone for not playing their part when those who are the alleged experts kept failing, but they are yesterday's men, Short is still here and an easy target for our ills.  

We are just a victim of the managerial appointment world and our history is riddled with "messiahs".

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Re: Does Insolvency/Administration wipe out debt

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2018-02-03, 9:22 pm

cyprussyd wrote:All far to technical for me, my questions are simple, can anyone answer?


  1. How much has Short invested in Sunderland?
  2. How much does he pay every month to keep the club afloat?
  3. How much has he taken out? 

From easily sourced available company records & his or Bains interviews
1. As published
2. Cashflow 
3. Allegedly millions via financial transfers including higher than commercially available loans to companies controlled by himself.

You know as well as I do Syd you can read a financial statement   pirat

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