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To V or not to V.

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To V or not to V.

Post  Nostalgic on 2018-01-18, 12:00 am

So now we have it, the VAR is a shambles according to the pundits who disagree with the video ref's decision. So from being the so called "way forward" to eliminate controversy it still relies on human opinion of an experienced official who allegedly gets it wrong, even with electronic assistance.

Given the choice, I would sack the pundits and the VAR and just go back to living with real time decisions, warts and all.

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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  canary-dave on 2018-01-18, 4:30 am

There's a lot in what you say Nos, I think the main problem is most pundits say if you are touched, no matter how slightly, you have a right to go down and claim a penalty. Bullshit!

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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Vincemac on 2018-01-18, 9:49 am

Nostalgic wrote:So now we have it, the VAR is a shambles according to the pundits who disagree with the video ref's decision. So from being the so called "way forward" to eliminate controversy it still relies on human opinion of an experienced official who allegedly gets it wrong, even with electronic assistance.

Given the choice, I would sack the pundits and the VAR and just go back to living with real time decisions, warts and all.
Should only be used for goal line.
Some weak referees will be badgered by players to use it for all minor mistakes etc.
Messed up again last night in German league
Brought the players back on at half time to award a penalty


Last edited by Vincemac on 2018-04-17, 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  cyprussyd on 2018-01-18, 9:57 am

I agree with Vince, only for goal line. Pens and fouls ar a mystery to me these days with players going down at the slightest touch, is football a contact sport or not?

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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Sid MCFC on 2018-01-19, 2:28 pm

I’ve been looking forward to it, it’s not great winning a match with a dodgy decision and it’s bloody awful losing a match by a dodgy decision.

Having said that it clearly needs a lot of tweaking before it’s unleashed on us all on a permanent basis.  Certainly players and managers trying to use it as a ‘tactic’ needs stamping down on.
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  sunderpitt on 2018-01-19, 2:48 pm

If it cuts down on the more obvious errors.. it has to be helpful. Sometimes the ref and the players are the only ones not to know what actually happened. The  crowd (mobiles) and those watching on TV  have seen the replays fairly instantly.

I dislike diving intensely.. he was entitled o go down cos he felt a touch.. is 9ne of the phrases I hate

In Rugby you pretend you are not hurt.. in football you pretend you are 

If VAR can help with this and pens offside etc and does it quickly ... we should go for it
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Billy D on 2018-01-19, 3:01 pm

sunderpitt wrote:If it cuts down on the more obvious errors.. it has to be helpful. Sometimes the ref and the players are the only ones not to know what actually happened. The  crowd (mobiles) and those watching on TV  have seen the replays fairly instantly.

I dislike diving intensely.. he was entitled o go down cos he felt a touch.. is 9ne of the phrases I hate

In Rugby you pretend you are not hurt.. in football you pretend you are 

If VAR can help with this and pens offside etc and does it quickly ... we should go for it
This. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Vincemac on 2018-01-19, 6:49 pm

sunderpitt wrote:If it cuts down on the more obvious errors.. it has to be helpful. Sometimes the ref and the players are the only ones not to know what actually happened. The  crowd (mobiles) and those watching on TV  have seen the replays fairly instantly.

I dislike diving intensely.. he was entitled o go down cos he felt a touch.. is 9ne of the phrases I hate

In Rugby you pretend you are not hurt.. in football you pretend you are 

If VAR can help with this and pens offside etc and does it quickly ... we should go for it
I don’t like var
Maybe for goal line 
But not for the rest of the game there will be to many players asking the ref for the game to be stopped and tv checked 
Not the answer for me
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Nostalgic on 2018-01-19, 10:27 pm

The original rule book was always on the side of the ref with the phrase "in the opinion of the official" - two of them looked at it so no pen is no pen. Live with it pundit and manager.

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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Vincemac on 2018-04-17, 12:15 pm

Messed up again last night in German league
Brought the players back on at half time to award a penalty
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  lesmac on 2018-04-17, 3:29 pm

Give each team 3 VAR's a match and if the decision is no change there should be no further discussion with either players or managers on or off the field. Anyone breaking that rule gets a red card and a  three game ban for players and a  similar ban for managers and coaches who must be stopped from getting instructions to the players, how, I don't know. Perhaps a 20 foot deep dungeon with no access to telephones, pigeons or any othet means of communication. 

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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Hieronymus on 2018-04-17, 3:35 pm

I am in favour of VAR. I agree the technology needs improvement, and the referees need to be more up to speed with it too, but for that to happen it has to be used. These days I feel it is impossible for any referee, even with the help of of line assistants, to see all that goes on. The game is too fast.

We already use goal line technology, VAR is not for those 'crossing the line' decisions. It should only be for offsides and when a ref awards a penalty and it was a mistake or when he did not and it should have been, or for missed tackles that should be a sending off. VAR should be about natural justice as well as following rules. Fans know when points have been won or lost 'unfairly' due to poor decisions and those are often the hardest to bear. BUT VAR should only be consulted when the game has stopped at a decision point anyway.

Some examples:

1) if a defender handballs in penalty area and officials miss it and game goes on well tough luck , even if players protest. Ref should not stop the game for a tantrum but go back and book any player that overreacted, when the game does finally stop!

2) If a penalty is given for a handball so game is stopped, but assistant says I didn't see it properly, or thinks it his chest, then VAR is consulted and it should be relatively easy to see what happened and for game to proceed correctly.

3) When a goal is 'scored' by an 'offside' player and the assistant does not flag but the ref thinks he was offside (or assistant flags but ref thinks onside). As the game is stopped for the restart, there is time for the ref to consult VAR and show who was right (yes sometimes it is difficult on those really narrow margins). VAR gives everyone confidence that the correct decicsion was made.

4) If a player was flagged offiside, and ref not sure, again game is stopped for a free kick, so ref can consult VAR and award the free kick to the attacking side, if it was found the player was not actually offside at all.

5) A player makes a tackle and ref misses that it was late and high but awards a free kick for a foul. Game is stopped for free kick to be taken and as player gets attention the VAR Ref on the sidelines decides that it was a bad tackle and informs referee, who goes to check and agreeing sends the offending player off. Natural justice is served and it is the correct decision. This is the only case I would allow the VAR ref to intervene without being asked by the on field referee.

6) As for diving I am not sure VAR helps either side of the cause and would leave that up to the ref entirely.

One change I would suggest is it not be up to the Referee to always decide when to go to VAR as that might put pressure on him to 'even up' an incorrect decision he made earlier perhaps. So in addition to the above I would allow each side to have one 'VAR time out ' to be called by the captain, per game, but again only to be invoked when the game is at a natural halt anyway.

There you go, what do you think? Very Happy  (I know - surely I have better things to do! Laughing )
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  sunderpitt on 2018-04-17, 3:43 pm

Of course it takes time and experience to get VAR  working well. As with cricket, golf rugby
 Premier league are stupid

When Mariner was the man with the replay screen in front of him... it was dreadful.. as expected from Mariner
 Others have been better
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2018-04-18, 7:04 am

Here's me thinking the tread was going to be about Tramadol  Rolling Eyes

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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  oldblackcat on 2018-04-18, 7:32 am

For me the use of VAR at the moment seems to be if they can find some way to disallow a goal....
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Vincemac on 2018-04-18, 9:05 am

oldblackcat wrote:For me the use of VAR at the moment seems to be if they can find some way to disallow a goal....
Yeeeeees thank god soe one has grasped it.
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  niceonemarra on 2018-04-18, 6:20 pm

Seems to work well for the goal line but as has been said above bringing all the players back out the dressing room to take a penalty is just plain silly.
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Vincemac on 2018-04-18, 6:23 pm

niceonemarra wrote:Seems to work well for the goal line but as has been said above bringing all the players back out the dressing room to take a penalty is just plain silly.
Yeh if it has to be introduced
I think goal line only
Then see how that transpires
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Re: To V or not to V.

Post  Hieronymus on 2018-04-19, 12:54 pm

Vincemac wrote:
niceonemarra wrote:Seems to work well for the goal line but as has been said above bringing all the players back out the dressing room to take a penalty is just plain silly.
Yeh if it has to be introduced
I think goal line only
Then see how that transpires
Goal line technology (Hawkeye) has been working in Premier League since 2013 and in Championship all this season Laughing 

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VAR is NOT used for goal line decisions. it can only be used for:

1. Whether goals should stand (offside, handball, fouls etc)
2. Penalty decisions
3. Direct red cards shown or not shown, although second yellow cards are not reviewable to draw a line
4. Mistaken identity, like Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Kieran Gibbs against Chelsea in 2014.

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Re: To V or not to V.

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