SunderMad
Why not join in with our small but perfectly formed community?

We are always looking for new members so sign up and join in, its free.

SOME PEOPLE SEEM TO HIT A SNAG WHEN TRYING TO REGISTER! NOT SURE WHY? IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM EMAIL ME AND I WILL SORT IT?
sundamad@aol.com
THE CATS NEXT GAME

Widget powered by WhatstheScore.com

Latest topics
»  Shrewsbury Town v Sunderland AFC
Yesterday at 10:24 pm by Silvers

» Ross at The Peacock
Yesterday at 9:42 pm by gil t azell

» Predictions Week 12
Yesterday at 8:30 pm by cyprussyd

» First game of the season for me.
Yesterday at 6:41 pm by sunderpitt

» No news is good news!
Yesterday at 5:13 pm by lesmac

» Welcome to the seventies old man!
Yesterday at 4:54 pm by fulwellend47

» The Dunc
Yesterday at 1:18 pm by Kipper

» League Table Week 11
Yesterday at 10:07 am by barrowmackem

» Predictions Mid week 12
2018-10-17, 7:04 pm by gil t azell

» Results Week 11
2018-10-17, 7:02 pm by gil t azell

Sky Sports-SunderMad Exclusive.
Sky Bet League 1
FcTables.com

To whoever takes over

Go down

To whoever takes over

Post  Argus on 2017-11-16, 1:39 pm

I pray that the following is part of the main brief for the new manager – develop a long term plan to build a team mainly from the Academy?

We are constantly reminded that our Academy ranks amongst the best in the country yet the number of kids making the first team remains abysmal.

I realise that for the past 10+ years our priority has been to retain Premiership status so whilst the occasional youngster sits on the bench, we rarely see them making much more than a fleeting glimpse because we are told that the risk is too great.

For years one of the main gripes of supporters is the lack of passion in the team and perhaps that’s because we’ve subscribed to our own problems by signing mercenaries who are not up for the fight.

Current circumstances provide us with the ideal opportunity to change the way we do business for two reasons.

1. We have an owner who is no longer prepared to dip into his pocket.

2. The club sits at its lowest ebb for more than a decade.

There will never be a better time to make these changes.

We must accept that the current system of player recruitment doesn’t work for us so let’s make the Academy work by investing more money in the best coaches available (the wages of only one current first team player would easily fund a top-class coaching team) and let them get on with the job of (i) polishing the existing Academy players and (ii) producing genuine first team candidates on a regular basis thereafter. After all, our youth team & under 21’s have a record of performing well on a regular basis, surely it can’t be such a difficult task to move them up a notch or two?

The short term plan is simply to avoid the drop and I certainly don’t see that as mission impossible, irrespective of who is appointed. We may have to accept that challenging for promotion is a few years away, but if the end result is a team with a genuine passion for the club, then that surely must be a better way to move forward.

I’m sure there will be many detractors to such a plan but unless there is a radical change in the way the club is run, then I fear the merry-go-round will continue with more players simply seeing SAFC as another big (and easy) payday, to the annoyance of many supporters.  

________________________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you on experience.
avatar
Argus
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 394
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 74
Location : Morpeth

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-11-16, 1:49 pm

A good post and it leads on to my thinking, we seem to have three main contenders if there is any truth in the media.

ALLY MCCOIST
Sunderland season ticket holder and larger than life character but management experience limited to one club in Scotland and for me very much a short term fill in, not what we need.

MICHAEL ONEIL
Doubt he would come but dont see the attraction, did a good job with NI but what championship experience, ideal Scotland candidate IMO.

PAUL HECKINGBOTTOM
Limited management experience but has done well and ticks all the boxes, IMO the long term candidate and closest match but questions are,



  • Will he be given sufficient funds to temp him
  • Will he be given the time needed by club and fans  

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 47141
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 70
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Kipper on 2017-11-16, 1:57 pm

Good posts. I wonder if Short is a Talking Heads fan. His riposte would probably be "Stop making sense."
avatar
Kipper
Investigative fact finder
Investigative fact finder

Posts : 1010
Join date : 2016-03-17

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-11-16, 2:00 pm

Michael O’Neill rejects Sunderland job as Northern Ireland boss considers Scotland


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Northern Ireland boss Michael O'Neill snubs chance to take over at Sunderland
SUNDERLAND have been turned down by Michael O’Neill. The Northern Ireland boss, also a target for the Scottish FA, was offered the chance to take over from…

THESUN.CO.UK

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 47141
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 70
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-11-16, 2:02 pm

CHRIS COLEMAN has emerged as surprise new favourite in the bookmakers' markets to take over as Sunderland manager.
The current Wales boss was available at around 25-1 with most firms this morning, but is now an odds-on favourite in most places.
Sky Bet have Coleman as short as 1-6 in their new market for Sunderland's next manager, suggesting there has been considerable support in the last few hours



[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


SUNDERLAND: Chris Coleman emerges as surprise new favourite with bookmakers for Black Cats job
CHRIS COLEMAN has emerged as surprise new favourite in the bookmakers' markets to take over as Sunderland manager.
THENORTHERNECHO.CO.UK

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 47141
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 70
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-11-16, 2:04 pm

Getting the feeling it will be McCoist

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 47141
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 70
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  sunderpitt on 2017-11-16, 2:06 pm

Syd there is nothing else for it... you have to become manager, you satisfy all the criteria, no need for present club compo. You are dirt cheap and will not spend any money on new players as you will use the kids and you will always be upbeat Cool


Nevermind the world and his wife turning us down


Sundermad will sort it with one of its own


Last edited by sunderpitt on 2017-11-16, 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
sunderpitt
Number Cruncher
Number Cruncher

Posts : 7274
Join date : 2012-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Argus on 2017-11-16, 2:20 pm

cyprussyd wrote:A good post and it leads on to my thinking, we seem to have three main contenders if there is any truth in the media.

ALLY MCCOIST
Sunderland season ticket holder and larger than life character but management experience limited to one club in Scotland and for me very much a short term fill in, not what we need.

MICHAEL ONEIL
Doubt he would come but dont see the attraction, did a good job with NI but what championship experience, ideal Scotland candidate IMO.

PAUL HECKINGBOTTOM
Limited management experience but has done well and ticks all the boxes, IMO the long term candidate and closest match but questions are,



  • Will he be given sufficient funds to temp him
  • Will he be given the time needed by club and fans  

It's an accepted fact Short does not wish to provide further funds so I no longer see that as an issue, but my suggestion would require substantially more time and it's the latter element that will probably be the reason why it is doomed.

If only the fans could see past tomorrow, we could have a team to be proud of once more - without getting embroiled in a unaffordable spending spree twice a year.

________________________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you on experience.
avatar
Argus
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 394
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 74
Location : Morpeth

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-11-16, 2:24 pm

sunderpitt wrote:Syd there is nothing else for it... you have to become manager, you satisfy all the criteria, no need for present club compo. You ate dirt cheap and will mot spend any money on new players as you will use the kids and you will always be upbeat Cool


Nevermind the world and his wife turning us down


Sundermad will sort it with one of its own
My team for Saturday

RUITER
MATHEWS  OSHEA  EMBLETON  OVIEDO
HONEYMAN  NDONG  MCNAIR  MCGEADY
WATMORE GABBADON
mika  wilson gooch vaughan williams jones cattermole

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 47141
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 70
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  TNT on 2017-11-16, 3:00 pm

He will get no funds from Short but, if he/she (maybe) does a half decent job and turns the performances around then they will get time from the fans, well most of them anyway.
All I ask and possibly all any Sunderland fan asks is to see some glimmer of light at the end of this very dark very long tunnel.

________________________________________________________
"If I had to choose between dribbling past 5 players and scoring from 40 yards at Anfield or shagging Miss World , it would be a hard choice.
Thankfully I've done both"
George Best

TNT
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 3110
Join date : 2012-08-04

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-11-16, 3:17 pm

talcnturnip wrote:He will get no funds from Short but, if he/she (maybe) does a half decent job and turns the performances around then they will get time from the fans, well most of them anyway.
All I ask and possibly all any Sunderland fan asks is to see some glimmer of light at the end of this very dark very long tunnel.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 47141
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 70
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Argus on 2017-11-16, 3:21 pm

This is an extract from an article on the BBC Sports website today about Kenny Dalglish

For us, we shared everything with the supporters," he says. "Shared the emotions with them, whether they were good or bad.
"They supported us and we tried to do our bit. There were thousands of them who would have loved to have been on that pitch. So why could you not share it?
"It was a privilege to even go there and play. It was a privilege to win. The way I looked at it, the club were doing me a favour. Not the other way round."

That just about embodies everything I like about football and we should do everything in our power to return to those old values.

________________________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you on experience.
avatar
Argus
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 394
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 74
Location : Morpeth

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Kipper on 2017-11-16, 3:39 pm

cyprussyd wrote:CHRIS COLEMAN has emerged as surprise new favourite in the bookmakers' markets to take over as Sunderland manager.
The current Wales boss was available at around 25-1 with most firms this morning, but is now an odds-on favourite in most places.
Sky Bet have Coleman as short as 1-6 in their new market for Sunderland's next manager, suggesting there has been considerable support in the last few hours



[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


SUNDERLAND: Chris Coleman emerges as surprise new favourite with bookmakers for Black Cats job
CHRIS COLEMAN has emerged as surprise new favourite in the bookmakers' markets to take over as Sunderland manager.
THENORTHERNECHO.CO.UK

Ewe Rosler has been mentioned as well. Ex Leeds, Wigan and currently the mighty Fleetwood.
avatar
Kipper
Investigative fact finder
Investigative fact finder

Posts : 1010
Join date : 2016-03-17

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-11-16, 3:43 pm

Argus wrote:This is an extract from an article on the BBC Sports website today about Kenny Dalglish

For us, we shared everything with the supporters," he says. "Shared the emotions with them, whether they were good or bad.
"They supported us and we tried to do our bit. There were thousands of them who would have loved to have been on that pitch. So why could you not share it?
"It was a privilege to even go there and play. It was a privilege to win. The way I looked at it, the club were doing me a favour. Not the other way round."

That just about embodies everything I like about football and we should do everything in our power to return to those old values.
APPL APPL APPL APPL

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 47141
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 70
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  sunderpitt on 2017-11-16, 4:11 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
sunderpitt wrote:Syd there is nothing else for it... you have to become manager, you satisfy all the criteria, no need for present club compo. You ate dirt cheap and will mot spend any money on new players as you will use the kids and you will always be upbeat Cool


Nevermind the world and his wife turning us down


Sundermad will sort it with one of its own
My team for Saturday

RUITER
MATHEWS  OSHEA  EMBLETON  OVIEDO
HONEYMAN  NDONG  MCNAIR  MCGEADY
WATMORE GABBADON
mika  wilson gooch vaughan williams jones cattermole

There I telt ya...the man knows
avatar
sunderpitt
Number Cruncher
Number Cruncher

Posts : 7274
Join date : 2012-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Hieronymus on 2017-11-16, 5:09 pm

Argus wrote:This is an extract from an article on the BBC Sports website today about Kenny Dalglish

For us, we shared everything with the supporters," he says. "Shared the emotions with them, whether they were good or bad.
"They supported us and we tried to do our bit. There were thousands of them who would have loved to have been on that pitch. So why could you not share it?
"It was a privilege to even go there and play. It was a privilege to win. The way I looked at it, the club were doing me a favour. Not the other way round."

That just about embodies everything I like about football and we should do everything in our power to return to those old values.
Too true Argus but those old school types hardly exist anymore. How many players get to play for their boyhood teams now? How many get taken to the hearts of supporters the way Dalglish, or Shearer (dare I say it?) did?

It is all about the money these days, not love of playing or even love of the game.

And maybe that is why we SAFC fans are so disillusioned right now because we can't think of anyone who might lift us from this desperate situation.

Personally I only think Roy Keane could do it, because he is a man like Dalglish, who believed playing football for a living was a privilege not to be squandered, and who never tolerated slackers or anyone going through the motions.

Yep Keano for me. Might not last in the job long term, as he is too combustible, but give him a couple of years and he would  pull the current players up by the bootstraps and get the club out of the doldrums.
avatar
Hieronymus
Admin Problem Solver
Admin Problem Solver

Posts : 9435
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 62

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Argus on 2017-11-16, 5:33 pm

Hieronymus wrote:
Argus wrote:This is an extract from an article on the BBC Sports website today about Kenny Dalglish

For us, we shared everything with the supporters," he says. "Shared the emotions with them, whether they were good or bad.
"They supported us and we tried to do our bit. There were thousands of them who would have loved to have been on that pitch. So why could you not share it?
"It was a privilege to even go there and play. It was a privilege to win. The way I looked at it, the club were doing me a favour. Not the other way round."

That just about embodies everything I like about football and we should do everything in our power to return to those old values.
Too true Argus but those old school types hardly exist anymore. How many players get to play for their boyhood teams now? How many get taken to the hearts of supporters the way Dalglish, or Shearer (dare I say it?) did?

It is all about the money these days, not love of playing or even love of the game.

And maybe that is why we SAFC fans are so disillusioned right now because we can't think of anyone who might lift us from this desperate situation.

Personally I only think Roy Keane could do it, because he is a man like Dalglish, who believed playing football for a living was a privilege not to be squandered, and who never tolerated slackers or anyone going through the motions.

Yep Keano for me. Might not last in the job long term, as he is too combustible, but give him a couple of years and he would  pull the current players up by the bootstraps and get the club out of the doldrums.


That was the very point I made in the very beginning of this thread, that we are led to believe that ALL players are mercenary when in fact that's not the case.

I do believe that by adopting a different approach from academy level upwards, you can cultivate a different ethos where the 'old' values still exist and we only recruit players who embrace that culture.

It won't happen overnight and it could be a painful process for the fans but the end result would be worth it.

It's the only way to rekindle the true spirit of the game and ensure the club never employs again the likes of Kone and his ilk.

________________________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you on experience.
avatar
Argus
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 394
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 74
Location : Morpeth

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  oldblackcat on 2017-11-16, 6:40 pm

Excellent post Argus....

The idea of a high level coaching staff to bring the best out of our youngsters and ease them into our first team, I totally agree with.....
only problem I see at the moment is, I think anyone who turns out to be a good player (aka Pickford) will be sold until our debt is eradicated which could be years...by that time we may be doomed to a permanent spot in the lower leagues
avatar
oldblackcat
Quizmaster
Quizmaster

Posts : 2456
Join date : 2012-08-20
Age : 57
Location : washington

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Nostalgic on 2017-11-16, 7:13 pm

Great read.  I have long thought that this is the route we should have taken seasons ago since we cannot now attract manager's and players of the quality we need in the long term.  People admire Bournemouth and Watford, but demand more from Sunderland for historical reasons.

We can compare us to the England set up in principle, competing well in all things, but how many make their club first team rather be sent on loan thus depriving an "opposition" club of their services.

Nostalgic
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 4073
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 80
Location : Auckland NZ

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Argus on 2017-11-16, 7:31 pm

Fans rightly have concerns that Short will simply sell the best players to line his pocket, but I think that fear is unfounded because he will suffer the wrath of the management team that produces the talent and even he is not so stupid as to kill the golden goose.

Yes, players will be sold but only those that are considered dispensable, in exactly the way that Man U operated for many years and I'm sure that at some stage just about every team in the top tier had some Man U 'cast-offs' who went on to play important roles at their new clubs (and we have had our fair share over the years).

I know my view is quite radical but it's an achievable dream if all the decision makers at the club bought into the idea.

________________________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you on experience.
avatar
Argus
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 394
Join date : 2012-08-06
Age : 74
Location : Morpeth

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-11-16, 7:48 pm

Selling our best players is a sensible thing to do, good for them and brings money into the club. The trick is either good scouting like Southampton to replace them with cheaper but good players or having our own replacement ready, ideally a combination of both.

The problem is that everyone, including the fans want jam today, patients is needed.

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 47141
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 70
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  oldblackcat on 2017-11-16, 7:56 pm

Syd,First we need to have a good team with good players before we start selling them, after we have signed or have replacements lined up....exactly like Southampton like I have said in previous posts a few times
avatar
oldblackcat
Quizmaster
Quizmaster

Posts : 2456
Join date : 2012-08-20
Age : 57
Location : washington

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2017-11-16, 7:59 pm

Great thoughts folks so try this one on for size.

How is it that a category 1 EPPP facility with fully qualified staff have only produced three players capably of progressing with over a thousand failing?

________________________________________________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]            [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Black Cat Kiwi
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 10008
Join date : 2012-08-01
Age : 100
Location : Godzone

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2017-11-16, 8:06 pm

cyprussyd wrote:Selling our best players is a sensible thing to do, good for them and brings money into the club. The trick is either good scouting like Southampton to replace them with cheaper but good players or having our own replacement ready, ideally a combination of both.

The problem is that everyone, including the fans want jam today, patients is needed.
Scouting is only the tip of the ice-berg at Southampton. They use what is called the Bilbao theory that in talent is talent and it is the effort that goes into training that makes the difference with everyone working to the same plan. A budget Barcelona if you like.


I've said it before, gift the AoL to a Koeman like scholar for five years & see what happens! 

________________________________________________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]            [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
Black Cat Kiwi
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 10008
Join date : 2012-08-01
Age : 100
Location : Godzone

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  gil t azell on 2017-11-16, 8:55 pm

cyprussyd wrote:Michael O’Neill rejects Sunderland job as Northern Ireland boss considers Scotland


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Northern Ireland boss Michael O'Neill snubs chance to take over at Sunderland
SUNDERLAND have been turned down by Michael O’Neill. The Northern Ireland boss, also a target for the Scottish FA, was offered the chance to take over from…

THESUN.CO.UK

If the bloke hasnt even spoken to us how does he know there isnt a transfer kitty. More utter b*llocks by the press mo.
avatar
gil t azell
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 5372
Join date : 2012-08-03
Age : 58
Location : Sunderland

Back to top Go down

Re: To whoever takes over

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum