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Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

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Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-08-09, 7:52 am

Written by Flash The Mackem
Since wor Niall Quinn placed our beloved club in the ‘safe’ hands of Ellis Short we could have been forgiven for having absolute faith in the passing on of the baton. After all, Quinny has always had our best interests at heart. On the surface I don’t think we had any reason to doubt him.
After all, the only blot on Mr Short’s copybook was an unsubstantiated arrest by South Korean authorities for the alleged illegal purchase of one of their banks, but the charges were dropped.
His career history pointed to the fact that he had made a habit of taking over struggling businesses, turning them around and eventually making a profit. All good so far, although perhaps we should have guessed that he wouldn’t spend much with him as owner based on his CV.
Having said that, Mr Short told us: “I have never taken money out of the club. In fact, I have funded significant shortfalls each and every season”.
Then went on to say: “Since I have been involved, the good news is that my investment has kept us in the Premier League for nine consecutive seasons. The bad news is, for the amount of money spent, we should be better than we are and no one knows that more than me”.

So let’s have a look at the investments in the playing staff:
2008-09: Nett Spend: £19.76m
2009-10: Nett Spend: £22.34m
2010-11: Nett Spend: -£11.41m
2011-12: Nett Spend: £1.73m
2012-13: Nett Spend: £21.13m
2013-14: Nett Spend: £10.38m
2014-15: Nett Spend: £13.83m
2015-16: Nett Spend: £49.93m
2016-17: Nett Spend: £17.22m
Total Outlay over 9 seasons: £144.91m
Average seasonal nett spend per transfer window: 8.05m
TV & Prize money
2016-17: £99m
2015-16: £71.84m
2014-15: I stopped researching at this point because I think the point has been made.

To summarise, and of course this is only my opinion, I’ll add the following:
I am not grateful to Ellis Short for his purported investment in the club. In fact, I’m absolutely furious with him. One of the most overused statements in business is that you “need to speculate to accumulate”, and I think the above figures prove that he has speculated nothing at all.
In the current climate it is inconceivable that a club with ambitions of succeeding in the Premier League can spend less than £25m in 8 out of 9 seasons and in one of those seasons actually register a profit in the market. If we were Spurs, selling players like Bale, perhaps a case could be made. But for Short there is no case for and plenty of cases against.
If indeed he HAS been subsidising us, then that can only be down to gross mismanagement on his part. The money has been there, the support has been there and to an extent the managers have been there.
I don’t know what his ultimate goal is – I presume it is to sell us to a bidder who will repay the high-interest loans he’s authorised to us from his own company – but what I do know is that clubs like Wolves (for crying out loud!) are being bought by investors who will be putting their money where their mouths are. We must be one of the most attractive propositions outside of London given our potential, yet folk aren’t even taking a sniff. Well, to me, that stinks.
Right now Mr Tightwad, I think you’re a Tosser.

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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  paddocklad on 2017-08-09, 9:03 am

I think this goes to prove what a lot on here have been saying that short is making money on his return on investment and would have sold the club by now if he wasn't
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  sunderpitt on 2017-08-09, 9:05 am

"Flash  uhuh leader of the universe " has made some very telling points

Atm we need some quality players in and money to get them,  over to you tightwad
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Vincemac on 2017-08-09, 10:24 am

cyprussyd wrote:Written by Flash The Mackem
Since wor Niall Quinn placed our beloved club in the ‘safe’ hands of Ellis Short we could have been forgiven for having absolute faith in the passing on of the baton. After all, Quinny has always had our best interests at heart. On the surface I don’t think we had any reason to doubt him.
After all, the only blot on Mr Short’s copybook was an unsubstantiated arrest by South Korean authorities for the alleged illegal purchase of one of their banks, but the charges were dropped.
His career history pointed to the fact that he had made a habit of taking over struggling businesses, turning them around and eventually making a profit. All good so far, although perhaps we should have guessed that he wouldn’t spend much with him as owner based on his CV.
Having said that, Mr Short told us: “I have never taken money out of the club. In fact, I have funded significant shortfalls each and every season”.
Then went on to say: “Since I have been involved, the good news is that my investment has kept us in the Premier League for nine consecutive seasons. The bad news is, for the amount of money spent, we should be better than we are and no one knows that more than me”.

So let’s have a look at the investments in the playing staff:
2008-09: Nett Spend: £19.76m
2009-10: Nett Spend: £22.34m
2010-11: Nett Spend: -£11.41m
2011-12: Nett Spend: £1.73m
2012-13: Nett Spend: £21.13m
2013-14: Nett Spend: £10.38m
2014-15: Nett Spend: £13.83m
2015-16: Nett Spend: £49.93m
2016-17: Nett Spend: £17.22m
Total Outlay over 9 seasons: £144.91m
Average seasonal nett spend per transfer window: 8.05m
TV & Prize money
2016-17: £99m
2015-16: £71.84m
2014-15: I stopped researching at this point because I think the point has been made.

To summarise, and of course this is only my opinion, I’ll add the following:
I am not grateful to Ellis Short for his purported investment in the club. In fact, I’m absolutely furious with him. One of the most overused statements in business is that you “need to speculate to accumulate”, and I think the above figures prove that he has speculated nothing at all.
In the current climate it is inconceivable that a club with ambitions of succeeding in the Premier League can spend less than £25m in 8 out of 9 seasons and in one of those seasons actually register a profit in the market. If we were Spurs, selling players like Bale, perhaps a case could be made. But for Short there is no case for and plenty of cases against.
If indeed he HAS been subsidising us, then that can only be down to gross mismanagement on his part. The money has been there, the support has been there and to an extent the managers have been there.
I don’t know what his ultimate goal is – I presume it is to sell us to a bidder who will repay the high-interest loans he’s authorised to us from his own company – but what I do know is that clubs like Wolves (for crying out loud!) are being bought by investors who will be putting their money where their mouths are. We must be one of the most attractive propositions outside of London given our potential, yet folk aren’t even taking a sniff. Well, to me, that stinks.
Right now Mr Tightwad, I think you’re a Tosser.
Syd can I post that on not 606 
Or would you preference me not too ????
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-08-09, 10:33 am

Vincemac wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:Written by Flash The Mackem
Since wor Niall Quinn placed our beloved club in the ‘safe’ hands of Ellis Short we could have been forgiven for having absolute faith in the passing on of the baton. After all, Quinny has always had our best interests at heart. On the surface I don’t think we had any reason to doubt him.
After all, the only blot on Mr Short’s copybook was an unsubstantiated arrest by South Korean authorities for the alleged illegal purchase of one of their banks, but the charges were dropped.
His career history pointed to the fact that he had made a habit of taking over struggling businesses, turning them around and eventually making a profit. All good so far, although perhaps we should have guessed that he wouldn’t spend much with him as owner based on his CV.
Having said that, Mr Short told us: “I have never taken money out of the club. In fact, I have funded significant shortfalls each and every season”.
Then went on to say: “Since I have been involved, the good news is that my investment has kept us in the Premier League for nine consecutive seasons. The bad news is, for the amount of money spent, we should be better than we are and no one knows that more than me”.

So let’s have a look at the investments in the playing staff:
2008-09: Nett Spend: £19.76m
2009-10: Nett Spend: £22.34m
2010-11: Nett Spend: -£11.41m
2011-12: Nett Spend: £1.73m
2012-13: Nett Spend: £21.13m
2013-14: Nett Spend: £10.38m
2014-15: Nett Spend: £13.83m
2015-16: Nett Spend: £49.93m
2016-17: Nett Spend: £17.22m
Total Outlay over 9 seasons: £144.91m
Average seasonal nett spend per transfer window: 8.05m
TV & Prize money
2016-17: £99m
2015-16: £71.84m
2014-15: I stopped researching at this point because I think the point has been made.

To summarise, and of course this is only my opinion, I’ll add the following:
I am not grateful to Ellis Short for his purported investment in the club. In fact, I’m absolutely furious with him. One of the most overused statements in business is that you “need to speculate to accumulate”, and I think the above figures prove that he has speculated nothing at all.
In the current climate it is inconceivable that a club with ambitions of succeeding in the Premier League can spend less than £25m in 8 out of 9 seasons and in one of those seasons actually register a profit in the market. If we were Spurs, selling players like Bale, perhaps a case could be made. But for Short there is no case for and plenty of cases against.
If indeed he HAS been subsidising us, then that can only be down to gross mismanagement on his part. The money has been there, the support has been there and to an extent the managers have been there.
I don’t know what his ultimate goal is – I presume it is to sell us to a bidder who will repay the high-interest loans he’s authorised to us from his own company – but what I do know is that clubs like Wolves (for crying out loud!) are being bought by investors who will be putting their money where their mouths are. We must be one of the most attractive propositions outside of London given our potential, yet folk aren’t even taking a sniff. Well, to me, that stinks.
Right now Mr Tightwad, I think you’re a Tosser.
Syd can I post that on not 606 
Or would you preference me not too ????
no problem Vince

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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Vincemac on 2017-08-09, 10:37 am

cyprussyd wrote:
Vincemac wrote:
cyprussyd wrote:Written by Flash The Mackem
Since wor Niall Quinn placed our beloved club in the ‘safe’ hands of Ellis Short we could have been forgiven for having absolute faith in the passing on of the baton. After all, Quinny has always had our best interests at heart. On the surface I don’t think we had any reason to doubt him.
After all, the only blot on Mr Short’s copybook was an unsubstantiated arrest by South Korean authorities for the alleged illegal purchase of one of their banks, but the charges were dropped.
His career history pointed to the fact that he had made a habit of taking over struggling businesses, turning them around and eventually making a profit. All good so far, although perhaps we should have guessed that he wouldn’t spend much with him as owner based on his CV.
Having said that, Mr Short told us: “I have never taken money out of the club. In fact, I have funded significant shortfalls each and every season”.
Then went on to say: “Since I have been involved, the good news is that my investment has kept us in the Premier League for nine consecutive seasons. The bad news is, for the amount of money spent, we should be better than we are and no one knows that more than me”.

So let’s have a look at the investments in the playing staff:
2008-09: Nett Spend: £19.76m
2009-10: Nett Spend: £22.34m
2010-11: Nett Spend: -£11.41m
2011-12: Nett Spend: £1.73m
2012-13: Nett Spend: £21.13m
2013-14: Nett Spend: £10.38m
2014-15: Nett Spend: £13.83m
2015-16: Nett Spend: £49.93m
2016-17: Nett Spend: £17.22m
Total Outlay over 9 seasons: £144.91m
Average seasonal nett spend per transfer window: 8.05m
TV & Prize money
2016-17: £99m
2015-16: £71.84m
2014-15: I stopped researching at this point because I think the point has been made.

To summarise, and of course this is only my opinion, I’ll add the following:
I am not grateful to Ellis Short for his purported investment in the club. In fact, I’m absolutely furious with him. One of the most overused statements in business is that you “need to speculate to accumulate”, and I think the above figures prove that he has speculated nothing at all.
In the current climate it is inconceivable that a club with ambitions of succeeding in the Premier League can spend less than £25m in 8 out of 9 seasons and in one of those seasons actually register a profit in the market. If we were Spurs, selling players like Bale, perhaps a case could be made. But for Short there is no case for and plenty of cases against.
If indeed he HAS been subsidising us, then that can only be down to gross mismanagement on his part. The money has been there, the support has been there and to an extent the managers have been there.
I don’t know what his ultimate goal is – I presume it is to sell us to a bidder who will repay the high-interest loans he’s authorised to us from his own company – but what I do know is that clubs like Wolves (for crying out loud!) are being bought by investors who will be putting their money where their mouths are. We must be one of the most attractive propositions outside of London given our potential, yet folk aren’t even taking a sniff. Well, to me, that stinks.
Right now Mr Tightwad, I think you’re a Tosser.
Syd can I post that on not 606 
Or would you preference me not too ????
no problem Vince
Cheers mate 
Incedently I agree
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Hieronymus on 2017-08-09, 11:14 am

Unsurprisingly I agree with Flash, with his analysis supporting the post I did the other day looking into the accounts.

If you look at Flash's figures you see the only nett spend above the average, of almost £50m, was the 2015/16 season when Sam spent big in January 2016 (Kone, Khazri and Kirchoff) when we HAD to stay in the Premier League, in order to get the improved TV deal and its associated parachute payments for the future.

Short has not been good for our club and I want him gone, but I am still careful what I wish for as I do not want us to attract a Venky's, who do not even understand the game, or a Simon Jordan type, that wanted to 'rescue' HIS football club so he could show off and tell everyone what a great guy he was.

Actually what I want is a Bob Murray. Someone who may not have always got it right but who you knew always had the club, first and foremost at heart. I know its a vain hope as those types of buyers aren't rich enough to compete these days. But it doesn't seem too much to ask does it?
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2017-08-09, 11:33 am

Hieronymus wrote:Unsurprisingly I agree with Flash, with his analysis supporting the post I did the other day looking into the accounts.

If you look at Flash's figures you see the only nett spend above the average, of almost £50m, was the 2015/16 season when Sam spent big in January 2016 (Kone, Khazri and Kirchoff) when we HAD to stay in the Premier League, in order to get the improved TV deal and its associated parachute payments for the future.

Short has not been good for our club and I want him gone, but I am still careful what I wish for as I do not want us to attract a Venky's, who do not even understand the game, or a Simon Jordan type, that wanted to 'rescue' HIS football club so he could show off and tell everyone what a great guy he was.

Actually what I want is a Bob Murray. Someone who may not have always got it right but who you knew always had the club, first and foremost at heart. I know its a vain hope as those types of buyers aren't rich enough to compete these days. But it doesn't seem too much to ask does it?

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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Argus on 2017-08-09, 11:34 am

'...Actually what I want is a Bob Murray. Someone who may not have always got it right but who you knew always had the club, first and foremost at heart...'

You're right H, but unfortunately the 2 owners who were openly passionate about the club - Bob Murray & Tom Cowie - were hounded out of the club by a minority who demanded instant success and let's not forget that Tom Cowie in particular became the target of some awful personal abuse.

Both of these gentlemen were fans long before they made their fortunes and they obviously thought their undoubted commercial expertise could help transform the club.

Unfortunately, despite each achieving a degree of success, they couldn't satisfy some of the fans so they became history with Tom Cowie openly admitting afterwards that it was the worst move he ever made because he not only became the villain but he became distanced from the club he supported as a child.

We should be careful what we wish for if Mr Short sells up.

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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  sunderpitt on 2017-08-09, 11:36 am

Is the amount spent of wages per annum missing from the analysis?
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Mackemneil on 2017-08-09, 11:49 am

sunderpitt wrote:Is the amount spent of wages per annum missing from the analysis?
Precisely!

Whilst I can't argue with the figures presented, you can not make a complete judgement of his performance without ALL of the facts!

As for Bob Murray, ask Mick Mcarthy how much financial support and investment he got when we were promoted to the Prem, and we all remember the end of season fiasco and subsequent relegation that season.
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Mackemneil on 2017-08-09, 11:53 am

Written by KATE SMITH
28 APRIL, 2017


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[url=https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://www.safc.com:443/news/club-news/2017/april/financial-results&text=Club's financial results for 2015-16&] Twitter[/url]


Sunderland AFC Limited has filed its annual accounts for the year ending July 31, 2016.  The figures highlight the period from August 01, 2015 through to July 31, 2016.
During this period, which featured a 17th place finish in the Premier League, the club had a turnover of £108 million. This represents an increase of £7 million on the 2014-15 figures and shows a small operating profit of £1.5 million. These figures do not include player amortisation and trading costs however, which saw a commitment to gross transfer fees of £38.3 million during the 2016 summer window. 
The period saw a reduction of £23 million in the club’s net debt, from £133.2 million, to £110.4 million.
The figures also highlight the continued commitment from the owner to fund significant shortfalls within the club’s finances on an ongoing basis.
Speaking about the results, chairman Ellis Short said: “We acknowledge that our financial performance must improve significantly.
“It is not something that can be fixed overnight, however we have taken the first steps towards making the positive changes necessary by restructuring the club at senior level, including the appointment of CEO Martin Bain last summer. 
“Implementing these changes was done with the aim of giving us the best platform from which to proactively address the issues we face both on and off the field and that will be our focus moving forward.”
KEY INDICATORS 
2016  2015
 Operating Profit £1.5m £1.1m
 Player trading / Amortisation costs £26.4m £20.5m
 Loss (after tax) £33m £26.6m
 Wages to turnover ratio 77.6% 76.3%
 Debt  £110.4m £133.3m
 Cash at the year end £26.9m £2.5m
 Average home league attendance 43,071 41,379
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  lesmac on 2017-08-09, 8:08 pm

Argus wrote:'...Actually what I want is a Bob Murray. Someone who may not have always got it right but who you knew always had the club, first and foremost at heart...'

You're right H, but unfortunately the 2 owners who were openly passionate about the club - Bob Murray & Tom Cowie - were hounded out of the club by a minority who demanded instant success and let's not forget that Tom Cowie in particular became the target of some awful personal abuse.

Both of these gentlemen were fans long before they made their fortunes and they obviously thought their undoubted commercial expertise could help transform the club.

Unfortunately, despite each achieving a degree of success, they couldn't satisfy some of the fans so they became history with Tom Cowie openly admitting afterwards that it was the worst move he ever made because he not only became the villain but he became distanced from the club he supported as a child.

We should be careful what we wish for if Mr Short sells up.
like like like like
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  barrowmackem on 2017-08-10, 10:04 am

well i suppose if those figures are correct then you cant question them, not spent as much as we all thought he had.
We need an owner who will invest, Short isnt going to do that, sooner he is gone the better.

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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  sunderpitt on 2017-08-10, 4:59 pm

There is a rumour on RTG that Short is not paying ball boys at matches £13....tight barsteward
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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-08-10, 5:12 pm

sunderpitt wrote:There is a rumour on RTG that Short is not paying ball boys at matches £13....tight barsteward

How are ballboys and girls selected?

It varies from club to club and is at their discretion. Many select youngsters from local youth leagues - for instance Sunderland's all come from the Russell Foster Youth League in Tyne and Wear. Arsenal invite members of their Junior Gunners between the ages of 12 and 16 for pre-selection trials. Manchester City meanwhile have recently appealed for ballboys and girls to come forward via their website. One City appeal last season asked for boys and girls age 11 and 12 (school years seven and eight) to apply. They needed to be: "able to attend every home game, be energetic, be able to quickly catch and throw a ball and be willing to sit in all weathers. And have parental consent." Newcastle United recently invited potential ballboys to be selected via a prize draw involving Junior Magpies or club members aged under 13, but also regularly draw them from local leagues.
Its rare for them to be paid

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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2017-08-11, 6:35 am

My lads done it & all he got was a can of Coke & sausage at half time.......But guess what, he was always the first to ask about next week before he got to old. I can still recall doing it myself many moons ago for a World Cup Qualifier  Embarassed

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Re: Who agrees with Flash? one at a time now.

Post  Nostalgic on 2017-08-11, 7:54 am

sunderpitt wrote:There is a rumour on RTG that Short is not paying ball boys at matches £13....tight barsteward
This piece was written by Louise Taylor back in 2013 and I doubt it hasn;t changed much.  From this it is fairly safe to say that the kids do not expect payment, so maybe the rumour is just another snipe at Short.

How are ballboys and girls selected?

It varies from club to club and is at their discretion. Many select youngsters from local youth leagues - for instance Sunderland's all come from the Russell Foster Youth League in Tyne and Wear. Arsenal invite members of their Junior Gunners between the ages of 12 and 16 for pre-selection trials. Manchester City meanwhile have recently appealed for ballboys and girls to come forward via their website. One City appeal last season asked for boys and girls age 11 and 12 (school years seven and eight) to apply. They needed to be: "able to attend every home game, be energetic, be able to quickly catch and throw a ball and be willing to sit in all weathers. And have parental consent." Newcastle United recently invited potential ballboys to be selected via a prize draw involving Junior Magpies or club members aged under 13, but also regularly draw them from local leagues.

Nostalgic
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