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Irish PM with Trumo

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Re: Irish PM with Trumo

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2017-03-19, 9:07 pm

Billy D wrote:Elections.
Do any of you feel your vote is wasted?
By that I mean makes no difference who you vote for as the outcome will always be the same.
My Parliamentary constituency is Durham North, one of the safest Labour seats in the country.
Jonesy knows he's on to a good thing there, so if by chance I vote Tory it wont matter a jot.
I wish I lived in a marginal so I could have an effect on the result.
Many do and therein lies the problem. 
Not wishing to sound pretentious but I do look at the candidates & what they stand for but to be honest at a local level once you get two or three down the list who really knows. I certainly recognise some as complete tossers & so struggle to logically complete the full list as well as I should. 

NZ local bodies use STV.

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Re: Irish PM with Trumo

Post  Hieronymus on 2017-03-20, 8:49 am

Black Cat Kiwi wrote:
Billy D wrote:Elections.
Do any of you feel your vote is wasted?
By that I mean makes no difference who you vote for as the outcome will always be the same.
My Parliamentary constituency is Durham North, one of the safest Labour seats in the country.
Jonesy knows he's on to a good thing there, so if by chance I vote Tory it wont matter a jot.
I wish I lived in a marginal so I could have an effect on the result.
Many do and therein lies the problem. 
Not wishing to sound pretentious but I do look at the candidates & what they stand for but to be honest at a local level once you get two or three down the list who really knows. I certainly recognise some as complete tossers & so struggle to logically complete the full list as well as I should. 

NZ local bodies use STV.

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Many people feel like you Billy, including myself. The issue is that modern life means binary choices between two main parties are no longer enough and personally I think that is a good thing.  People want to take what I call a more 'pick n'mix' approach to voting. They may want to vote for some Green policies because they believe in climate change and know it needs addressing, but also Labour because they want nationalisation of public utilties and railways for example. If elections were run on a sensible proportional representation basis to make people feel that their vote counted and was important, then voters would engage more and turnout would improve too, and that would be good for democracy.
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Re: Irish PM with Trumo

Post  Hieronymus on 2017-03-20, 9:07 am

sunderpitt wrote:Well done H....i am also a long standing LP member....but as even my 86 year old Mum thinks Cornyn is a numpty..

I just see us with no chance of winning a GE

I live in a safe labour seat...so what do you do.

I was lucky enough to meet Michael Foot and really liked him...but he was stuffed in 83...but Corbyn is not even a shadow of Foot.

So Labour like my football team is heading to the 2nd division
I too am worried but have always believed it is better to try to change things from within, than from the outside. The issue with the Labour party under Blair was that his minions would brook no argument. None of that leftish rubbish! Which was wrong and it went against all that so many Labour members believed in. Hence why membership plummeted.

Now we see the same 'machine' turn its vitriol against a new leader. I agree he is not the charismatic leader we might prefer but if not him who? It may have failed to register with the Blairite wing but their candidates and policies lost the last 2 elections!

Yes, I was horrified that Corbyn did not 'gut' Teresa May last week regarding the NI U turn. But PMQs is theatre. It is not about dealing with real problems as the Tories show us every week. So is political point scoring more important than being a decent human being? Someone who does not rise to the bait and never, ever reacts to the horrific personal atacks he faces every day, from senior people in his own party as well as from a right wing media?

I don't know the answers to where labour goes from here, but I do know that Blairs neo-liberal agenda has had its day and the huge rise in membership under Corbyn is a sign that people want something different. Yes, Labour are in a serious period of transition, but the last thing we need is for lifelong Labour supporters to give up on the party, or working towards winning the next election, whoever is the leader. We have to get the Tories out of power. We simply have to.
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Re: Irish PM with Trumo

Post  cyprussyd on 2017-03-20, 9:11 am

Like you Billy my vote will make little difference here in Coxhoe.
I find myself in a rather sad place, I don't agree with all of Corbyn's ideas and I'm not at all sure he can ever win but, and its a big but, I fear for the part of the UK i call home with the present government in charge.

Whatever concerns people have about Corbyn I cant see how a Tory vote can be better but I do understand why people would vote for them.

Not sure if it's fear, selfishness or apathy but unless you know someone suffering from the benefit cuts then its easy not to see it being a problem. Sadly that goes for the NHS, housing, public services, in fact everything I find wrong with the tories.

Can the UK do a USA and vote in the unelectable?

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Re: Irish PM with Trumo

Post  sunderpitt on 2017-03-20, 9:19 am

Hieronymus wrote:
sunderpitt wrote:Well done H....i am also a long standing LP member....but as even my 86 year old Mum thinks Cornyn is a numpty..

I just see us with no chance of winning a GE

I live in a safe labour seat...so what do you do.

I was lucky enough to meet Michael Foot and really liked him...but he was stuffed in 83...but Corbyn is not even a shadow of Foot.

So Labour like my football team is heading to the 2nd division
I too am worried but have always believed it is better to try to change things from within, than from the outside. The issue with the Labour party under Blair was that his minions would brook no argument. None of that leftish rubbish! Which was wrong and it went against all that so many Labour members believed in. Hence why membership plummeted.

Now we see the same 'machine' turn its vitriol against a new leader. I agree he is not the charismatic leader we might prefer but if not him who? It may have failed to register with the Blairite wing but their candidates and policies lost the last 2 elections!

Yes, I was horrified that Corbyn did not 'gut' Teresa May last week regarding the NI U turn. But PMQs is theatre. It is not about dealing with real problems as the Tories show us every week. So is political point scoring more important than being a decent human being? Someone who does not rise to the bait and never, ever reacts to the horrific personal atacks he faces every day, from senior people in his own party as well as from a right wing media?

I don't know the answers to where labour goes from here, but I do know that Blairs neo-liberal agenda has had its day and the huge rise in membership under Corbyn is a sign that people want something different. Yes, Labour are in a serious period of transition, but the last thing we need is for lifelong Labour supporters to give up on the party, or working towards winning the next election, whoever is the leader. We have to get the Tories out of power. We simply have to.

Hitherto Labour leaders were usually to the right of the membership.

It's not that Cornyn is 'leftist that is the problem  it is that very few outside of momentum think he is a capable leader...we will not win power with him as the figure head.

Not that Labour's problems did not start before Cornyn...we lost Scotland and do look like getting it back anytime soon. As heavy manufacturing has disappeared those workers have become non unionised white van man and we lost them too.

Coco Corbyn and his cultists are unlikely to put Labour in a position to win seats and form a government.
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Re: Irish PM with Trumo

Post  Billy D on 2017-03-20, 9:47 am

Hieronymus wrote:
Black Cat Kiwi wrote:
Billy D wrote:Elections.
Do any of you feel your vote is wasted?
By that I mean makes no difference who you vote for as the outcome will always be the same.
My Parliamentary constituency is Durham North, one of the safest Labour seats in the country.
Jonesy knows he's on to a good thing there, so if by chance I vote Tory it wont matter a jot.
I wish I lived in a marginal so I could have an effect on the result.
Many do and therein lies the problem. 
Not wishing to sound pretentious but I do look at the candidates & what they stand for but to be honest at a local level once you get two or three down the list who really knows. I certainly recognise some as complete tossers & so struggle to logically complete the full list as well as I should. 

NZ local bodies use STV.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Many people feel like you Billy, including myself. The issue is that modern life means binary choices between two main parties are no longer enough and personally I think that is a good thing.  People want to take what I call a more 'pick n'mix' approach to voting. They may want to vote for some Green policies because they believe in climate change and know it needs addressing, but also Labour because they want nationalisation of public utilties and railways for example. If elections were run on a sensible proportional representation basis to make people feel that their vote counted and was important, then voters would engage more and turnout would improve too, and that would be good for democracy.
Well I must admit to using the protest vote in the past.
There has been times I have voted BNP or UKIP.
This is out of sheer frustration with Labour/Conservative.
Lets face facts, LibDems are a busted flush since the failed coalition with Mr Cameron.
I'm fed up with Labour/Tory.
Who else is there to choose?
I'm sick of the same old shit.
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Re: Irish PM with Trumo

Post  Billy D on 2017-03-20, 9:54 am

cyprussyd wrote:Like you Billy my vote will make little difference here in Coxhoe.
I find myself in a rather sad place, I don't agree with all of Corbyn's ideas and I'm not at all sure he can ever win but, and its a big but, I fear for the part of the UK i call home with the present government in charge.

Whatever concerns people have about Corbyn I cant see how a Tory vote can be better but I do understand why people would vote for them.

Not sure if it's fear, selfishness or apathy but unless you know someone suffering from the benefit cuts then its easy not to see it being a problem. Sadly that goes for the NHS, housing, public services, in fact everything I find wrong with the tories.

Can the UK do a USA and vote in the unelectable?

I just want someone fresh, with new ideas & put the British people first.
Out of the current lot, I'd have to vote for May as I think she is the best of a bad lot & is doing a canny job under the circumstances.
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Re: Irish PM with Trumo

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