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Post  Guest on 2016-08-30, 1:52 am

I have been watching Sunderland since Len Shackleton.

And I am sick to death of my team being referred to as something along the lines of " a formerly great club"

It WAS a GREAT club. Sadly it seems that no-one has the ambition anymore.

Seems to me that, unless something happens the next couple of days, we're looking at "same old same old".

Like I said a couple of days ago, no-one can tell me anymore that Short is not the problem. He is the only candidate left?

In my opinion Quinn was the last to understand the potential. But even he could not deliver.

We have had quite a few successful Scottish managers going all the way back to BIll Murray and I really thought Moyes could be another.

But now, it seems to me that the last four, at least, managers, have been lied to at the start of their reign. Promised commitment and then no financial support.

Yes, Short has spent money, but he has consistently allowed the wrong people to spend it on the wrong players, and spend it too late.

Short needs to accept that he has got himself into the wrong business, accept the loss, let the tax payer,(somehere) pick up part of the tab, and sell the " business".

I realise this is a rant, but things cannot go on like this every year. I am DONE.

Once again, I hope I am wrong. Next couple of days will tell but I assure you, while I will always love the club, I am done with same old.

Goodbye
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Post  Nostalgic on 2016-08-30, 2:14 am

Come back when the window slams shut.
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Post  oldblackcat on 2016-08-30, 7:16 am

Football has changed a hell of a lot since we were a GREAT club..........when we were known as the bank of England club we had a board full of people with money and players that were paid a pittance....now we have one owner with money and players that are paid a fortune....true there's a hell of a lot of money involved in staying in the premier league but we can't spend it all on players like people seem to think....also you have teams like Man City and Chelsea who are bankrolled by oil magnets,who have an unlimited amount of cash to splash,Man City bending the rules and sponsoring their own stadium for around 160 million a season or two ago,people look at what they spend and think we can do the same but we can't compete money wise with these clubs.....How do teams like Watford splash the cash?I don't really know,but I bet like us they have a load of debt!.....Short has backed his managers and given them money to spend, but as you point out most have spent it on players that weren't good enough....selling the club isn't the solution,look at Leeds or Cardiff....what is the solution? I can't really say,but getting a good manager (which we may have done) and developing our own players instead of paying transfer fees would be a start.....I, like yourself and many others am constantly frustrated seeing the team struggling along near the bottom of the league,but just like in life I plod on through the tough times knowing that  eventually good times will return....may be a cliche but you've got to keep the faith!
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Post  cyprussyd on 2016-08-30, 7:43 am

I hate to say it but I can't help but agree with Cire.
I'm still very hopeful of getting the players in but how can we not be concerned with this last minute rush?

I also believe the rumours that Short wants out but if he does why have we not been sold?

Surely out potential makes us a great buy, the only answer I can come up with is that Short wants all his money back.

All that said I still cant wait for the next game.

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Post  oldblackcat on 2016-08-30, 8:00 am

Here's a link which may explain some things a little

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Post  Nostalgic on 2016-08-30, 8:39 am

When everything in the garden looks lovely it took an astute gardener to get it that way. The last article about Short "squandering" his own money is laughable. Had he been a total protector of his wealth he would have done something like the guy in this article:

Fergus McCann never did think much of acclaim. He rescued Celtic but refused to consider himself as a savour.
"I'm just one of yesterday's features," says the Scottish-born Canadian businessman who had a controlling stake in the club for five years from 1994. "I'm a blip in the background."
While recalling his five years at Celtic Park, he doesn't veer off into sentimentality. His attachment to the club is entirely emotional - he tells a story of sitting at the back of a meeting while working for Marconi in Canada in 1967 listening to the European Cup final on the BBC World Service - but McCann's involvement with the club was "logical".

  • Podcast: Fergus McCann extended interview


He is proud of the way the club is run now, not because of the league titles being accumulated but the clear business sense that prevails.
"It's so easy for the club to be criticised, as they so often are," he says. "You can buy short-term success at great cost.

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Fergus McCann and Tom Boyd unfurled the championship flag in 1998
"You go back to the previous coach [Martin O'Neill], who brought in three players at £6m a pop, aged 28.
"They did well, they got to [the Uefa Cup final in] Seville, fine. But look at the balance sheet - the players are gone, the salaries are way up, we didn't make any money."
The assessment is typical of McCann: hard-headed, rational.

Act 1: Rescue

McCann spent two years talking to the Celtic board about trying to help the club as it struggled financially in the early 1990s. The response was generally "when will you be returning to Montreal, Mr McCann?".
So he regrouped, found some willing allies and set about trying to oust some of the board members and instigate "radical change". With Celtic only hours from bankruptcy and fans campaigning against the board, he made his move, flying to Scotland to pay off the club's debts and begin the process of taking over.
"I didn't have a plan to come to Celtic Park and run the club for five years," he says. "But it ended up being the formula that had to be applied to make it work.


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Former Celtic chief executive Fergus McCann remembers the dramatic events of 1994
"Staying out of bankruptcy was expensive. That would have been the easiest way, as you have seen in the case of the other club in Glasgow [Rangers].
"I was doing what I thought was logical. I was not donating money - I was investing and I expected to get my money back. I didn't expect to make a lot of money. I did, but that's the way it happened.
"But it was not coming in as a saviour. I had a responsibility to the supporters to make sure their money wasn't wasted.
"I put two thirds of my money [he spent £9.5m] into the club. It was the correct thing to do."

Act 2: Building foundations

McCann never courted publicity or popularity. He surrounded himself with smart executives, directors and advisors, and spent five years trying to balance the club's ambition with the reality of its situation and financial imperatives.
He oversaw the rebuilding of Celtic Park, funded in part by a share issue, but also the strengthening of the club's foundations so that a similar period of turmoil could never happen again. There were obstacles along the way, though, as he found as he sought a successor to the manager, Lou Macari.
"I was under a lot of pressure to get Tommy Burns in, from board members and others I listened to," McCann says. "I suppose, looking back, maybe I should just have held firm and got the Dutch coach we were looking at at the time.
"I hired Tommy Burns, not because he was the best qualified candidate but because the fans would give him time. That was the asset he had.

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Tommy Burns was not Fergus McCann's preferred choice as manager
"When I came in and Tommy Burns applies for the job, I go to meet him. But I got fined [£100,000] for the approach. The previous highest fine for a similar situation was £5k.
"Tommy Burns' salary with one year to go at Kilmarnock was £40k. I felt [the fine] was vindictive and unnecessary and excessive.
"[Celtic] are not entirely surrounded by friends. The Scottish environment is such that there has been some prejudice against immigrants.
"Celtic is seen as having a big Catholic population among its support. Celtic supporters understand that Celtic is a symbol of their dealing with that by not being second to anyone."

Act 3: Moving on

McCann sold up in 1999, making a healthy profit. He returned to Canada and a life away from the public eye.
He was booed by some Celtic fans when he unfurled the league title flag that summer but has since returned to glorious acclaim from supporters who have a different perspective now on his application of sound business principles ahead of rampant ambition.
McCann continues to follow Celtic, to understand their place in the game but also to hold views that would radicalise, and enrage, parts of Scottish football.
"All the small clubs hate Celtic and Rangers, who basically feed them," he says. "It comes down to human nature, but it also speaks to the structure in Scottish football.

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Fergus McCann believes Scotland's other clubs dislike Celtic and Rangers
"A lot of things have changed in 30 years: television habits, media, salaries, worldwide brands, Champions League, all these new things. In Scotland, not much has changed.
"They fiddle around with deck chairs, but you have still got 42 supposed-to-be-professional clubs in a population of five million.
"There are five million people in Greater Manchester, who have only got two clubs. There are five million in Boston, who only have one club.
"Don't forget your dwindling potential audience. I watched a game, Celtic against Kilmarnock, 6,000 people, with close to 5,000 Celtic fans. What are Kilmarnock bringing to the game?
"They should maybe talk about British football. Celtic can take its place in British football. That's maybe where they belong."
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Post  Guest on 2016-08-30, 8:54 am

It's more than evident to me short is looking for an escape route. "recouping" seems to be his agenda and trying his best to balance the books. Expect very little to happen today or tomorrow and then anythings a bonus. 5 players desparately needed but unless things are in place we have no chance of that happening really and certainly no marquee signing to get everyone excited. In short it's time short buggered off, he obviously has no clue as in to how to run a football club and season after season we seem to be getting more and more left behind. I'm off work and have "snn" on but I might as well be sitting on Cambois beach as I'll probably have more of a chance seeing a player in a sunderland shirt there....haha. Fingers crossed but don't hold your breath.
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Post  Guest on 2016-08-30, 9:09 am

Watched the Palace game on MOTD on Sunday morning and their attendance was 23 odd thousand, not putting the Palace fans down its the or ground size. However we are lets say roughly double that at home games yet we can't compete with them, possibly double that with merchandise etc. yet still we can't compete. 
Yes we have debt, our debt to Short alone has more than doubled are we sure we got the loan off Short and not Wonga? most clubs in the PL have a debt of multi millions the gamble is to spend and stay in the PL or try and pay all the debt off only to drop into the fizzy pop. 
I said on a previous thread a couple of weeks ago that paying the debt off is probably the best way to go but, you have to balance that with new players, difficult? Yes. Impossible? No. 
Short will sell up but, a PL team will attract more money than a Fizzy pop club so it's back to speculate to accumulate. Short is a hedge fund manager basically taking cheap run down businesses and assets and building them to sell on for a profit later, he has done the opposite with us taken a half decent business and is now running it down to sell at he hopes a profit, good luck with that.
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Post  paddocklad on 2016-08-30, 11:00 am

Often hedge fund managers or asset strippers by a company and sell the assets and keep the profits(EPL money) then sell what remains to make a profit

What I can't get my head around is moyes must have been made assurances when he was approached bowing the past history of short and he probably came because of those assurances and it would now appear short has lied again I wouldn't be surprised if moyes walks and would have fairly strong claim for constructive dismissal and we end up in allegedly more debt to former managers.........this has to stop now..........where is the grey man in Martin Bain we have heard nothing from him is he just shorts puppet
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