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To Frack or not to Frack

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To Frack or not to Frack

Post  cyprussyd on 2016-05-25, 8:10 am

To Frack or not to Frack.
Now I confess that fracking has not being playing a big part in my life so I have no strong views either way, just dont know enough about it.
It seems like the EU debate, its either very good, indeed essential or very bad, the end of the world depending on who you listen to.

Those in favor say it brings a new source of much needed energy, can lower prices and create jobs...I vote yes.
However those against say it is bad for the environment, can affect water quality and cause subsidence and even earthquakes. I vote no.

So come on, no drama or exaggeration just facts, educate me please.

Fracking: truths and myths about shale gas

As the government attempts to win support for the controversial expansion of fracking, Channel 4 News looks at some of the truths and myths surrounding shale gas.


Shale is important for our country. It could bring 74,000 jobs, over £3bn of investment, give us cheaper energy for the future, and increase our energy security- David Cameron

Truth or myth: The Institute of Directors claims that shale gas could create 74,000 jobs. Geologists, engineers, construction workers, business analysts, truck drivers and public relations staff are examples of the people needed by the industry as well as cement and steel manufacturers, equipment manufacturers, drilling services companies.

The US has clearly demonstrated fracking is dangerous, destructive and devastates communities. Despite regulation this will also be the case in the UK. Only one well has been drilled and fracked here and it caused earthquakes that damaged the well so gas and chemicals could leak out- Anti-fracking protester

Truth or myth: A government-commissioned report in 2013 found that drilling had caused tremors and that this was likely to happen again if fracking resumed. But it said that while "such an event would be strongly felt by people within a few kilometres from the epicentre and could cause some alarm", no structural damage was likely.

Latest estimates suggest that there's about 1,300 trillion cubic feet of shale gas lying underneath Britain at the moment – and that study only covers 11 counties. To put that in context, even if we extract just a tenth of that figure, that is still the equivalent of 51 years' gas supply- David Cameron

Truth or myth: Government projections only go up to 2030, when natural gas demand is estimated to amount to 78.8bn cubic meters, more than current levels. The BGS on the other hand hasn't estimated how long our shale gas reserves might last. The UK's extractable reserves are still an unknown.

The reality is that everywhere in the world, where this process has been put into use, it has resulted in the contamination of the water, of soil and of the air. When the governments and industry are promoting their shale gas agenda, they conveniently leave out the evidence that this is an abomination- Ex-oilfield executive Ian R Crane

Truth or myth: The number of official studies confirming the link between water contamination and fracking are limited. However, high levels of pollution were recently found in and around the Barnett Shale in Texas. Toxic substances, including arsenic, selenium and strontium, were all found at levels higher than the recommended levels in wells. The highest concentration of arsenic was 16 times the Environment Protection Agency (EPA) safety standard for drinking water.


UK shale gas can be developed sensibly and safely, protecting the local environment, with the right regulation. With the right safeguards in place the net effect on national emission from UK shale gas production will be relatively small when compared to the use of other sources of gas- Energy Secretary Ed Davey

Truth or myth: According to the Committee on Climate Change, if production is well regulated, shale gas can have lower emissions than imported liquefied natural gas (LNG). A recent report for the European Commission also reached the same conclusion.

There are large and uninhabited and desolate areas. Certainly in part of the north east, where there's plenty of room for fracking, well away from anybody's residence where we could conduct without any kind of threat to the rural environment- Lord Howell of Guildford

Truth or myth: It’s difficult to say but a US report suggests that fracking could have an impact on habitat, water quality, water quantity, noise and air pollution. However, these studies are at an early stages.

If we don't back this technology, we will miss a massive opportunity to help families with their bills ... fracking has real potential to drive energy bills down- David Cameron

Truth or myth: A recent report commissioned by energy regulator Ofgem estimated that if shale gas production meets up to 21 per cent of demand then wholesale gas prices in the UK could be cut by between 2 per cent and 4 per cent between 2020 and 2034 from their current levels. However, a similar report by the Energy and Climate Change Committee suggested that, while UK shale gas production may help to secure energy supplies, this may not lead to cheaper energy bills.

Total, a French company who can't frack in their own country because the French government has stopped the French countryside being ripped up, have now turned their sights on the UK countryside, where the UK government seem happy to allow the industrialisation of our green and pleasant land- Greenpeace climate campaigner Lawrence Carter

Truth or myth: The French parliament voted to ban the controversial technique for extracting natural gas from shale rock deposits known as hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, in 2011. France’s constitutional court upheld a ban in 2013. The court ruled that in imposing the ban, lawmakers were pursuing a legitimate goal in the general interest of protecting the environment and noted differences between geothermal and shale gas exploration techniques.


 
A good article but it still leaves me with claim and counter claim. It seems that like most things in life it comes with risk and the gamble is working out if the benefits can outweigh the risk. It needs good regulation but when power and money is involved I'm not sure how much I trust the regulators. All of this may well be unimportant because if the powers that be want it I have no doubt we will get it. Maybe a different sort of power may help.

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  canary-dave on 2016-05-25, 8:16 am

We should tell them to frack off!

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  cyprussyd on 2016-05-25, 8:48 am

canary-dave wrote:We should tell them to frack off!
Why

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  canary-dave on 2016-05-25, 10:53 am

It's dangerous and environmentally unfriendly!

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  Hieronymus on 2016-05-25, 11:30 am

This quote was proven to have shown this lord's lack of geographical knowledge:

There are large and uninhabited and desolate areas. Certainly in part of the north east, where there's plenty of room for fracking, well away from anybody's residence where we could conduct without any kind of threat to the rural environment- Lord Howell of Guildford

Most of the North East geology means it is not suitable for fracking but Lord Howell of Guildford was actually referring to the North Westt!!!  Shocked

I suggest Lord Howell of Guildford recommends Guildford as a perfectly reasonable location for a fracking operation - see how the residents react to that!

You are right though Syd that the arguments for and against are simialr to those of IN or OUT the EU. No one really knows. My personal view, and it is just a gut feeling, is that Fracking might be a scandal waiting to happen and yet another mess this generation will leave for our children and grandchildren to clean up after us.  Crying or Very sad
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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  Argus on 2016-05-25, 2:58 pm

'....Fracking might be a scandal waiting to happen and yet another mess this generation will leave for our children and grandchildren to clean up after us...'


.... and that's in addition to the disposal of nuclear waste which has conveniently been kept out of the limelight lately.

Me thinks the next few generations are going to be kept mighty busy working out how to clean  up our mess.

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  cyprussyd on 2016-05-25, 3:10 pm

Some very persuasive arguments to be against

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  sunderpitt on 2016-05-25, 4:48 pm

The most serious danger that faces us.....probably not us old duffers....but certainly our grandchildren is global warming caused by us using fossil fuel.

Fracking gas is less polluting than coal and an argument is that until renewable energy is fully up and running and nuclear plants have been built to take up the renewable downtime...We should use fracking gas as a stop gap...We then do not depend on Russia or any other country to keep the lights on.

From my reading of the studies 'earthquakes' are just a foolish scare. Water pollution is a possibility if the engineering is done badly...The sites of the drills are relatively small...There is more traffic

Undoubtedly the gas will provide an increased GDP and jobs...very helpful if we hopefully quit the corrupt and failing EU
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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  cyprussyd on 2016-05-25, 5:01 pm

sunderpitt wrote:The most serious danger that faces us.....probably not us old duffers....but certainly our grandchildren is global warming caused by us using fossil fuel.

Fracking gas is less polluting than coal and an argument is that until renewable energy is fully up and running and nuclear plants have been built to take up the renewable downtime...We should use fracking gas as a stop gap...We then do not depend on Russia or any other country to keep the lights on.

From my reading of the studies 'earthquakes' are just a foolish scare. Water pollution is a possibility if the engineering is done badly...The sites of the drills are relatively small...There is more traffic

Undoubtedly the gas will provide an increased GDP and jobs...very helpful if we hopefully quit the corrupt and failing EU
and that sunders is the perfect example of why I don't know what to do. I find your case to be compelling

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  sunderpitt on 2016-05-25, 5:14 pm

cyprussyd wrote:
sunderpitt wrote:The most serious danger that faces us.....probably not us old duffers....but certainly our grandchildren is global warming caused by us using fossil fuel.

Fracking gas is less polluting than coal and an argument is that until renewable energy is fully up and running and nuclear plants have been built to take up the renewable downtime...We should use fracking gas as a stop gap...We then do not depend on Russia or any other country to keep the lights on.

From my reading of the studies 'earthquakes' are just a foolish scare. Water pollution is a possibility if the engineering is done badly...The sites of the drills are relatively small...There is more traffic

Undoubtedly the gas will provide an increased GDP and jobs...very helpful if we hopefully quit the corrupt and failing EU
and that sunders is the perfect example of why I don't know what to do. I find your case to be compelling

James Lovelorn (96) who is the pre eminent scientist probably the first true ecologist and green peace  his was the Gaia hypothesis I. E the planet will self regulate.

He now advocates nuclear and renewable. ...not sure of 
his position on fracking. A number of hard nose climate scientist all who see global warming as a potential extinction threat  do not necessarily agree with the more radical tree huggers
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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  Nostalgic on 2016-05-25, 10:08 pm

Surely what appears to be wide open spaces of land that has no use there are tens of thousands of underground streams that feed our rivers and then eventually water supply. Remember a documentary some years ago about the lake district where bore samples had been taken of the mud bottom and the scientists were able to give the time period they formed and the top strata was the only black part signifying the industrial revolution period.

Town and villages flooding in the south some years ago far from rivers but not too far from M23 and M25 which had never been previously known. Disturbance of underground streams again? As we have developed we have destroyed and whilst none of us will probably be around to witness the outcome I believe some of the data coming out of fracking in the US is not good.

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  MrRAWhite on 2016-05-25, 10:52 pm

sunderpitt wrote:The most serious danger that faces us.....probably not us old duffers....but certainly our grandchildren is global warming caused by us using fossil fuel.

Fracking gas is less polluting than coal and an argument is that until renewable energy is fully up and running and nuclear plants have been built to take up the renewable downtime...We should use fracking gas as a stop gap...We then do not depend on Russia or any other country to keep the lights on.

From my reading of the studies 'earthquakes' are just a foolish scare. Water pollution is a possibility if the engineering is done badly...The sites of the drills are relatively small...There is more traffic

Undoubtedly the gas will provide an increased GDP and jobs...very helpful if we hopefully quit the corrupt and failing EU

That quote itself is also debatable. Yes, the gas gleaned from fracking produces less greenhouse gases than coal, but the means of obtaining this gas has a record of contaminating water supplies, and this in the wide open spaces of the USA and Canada. In a relatively small island such as ours, this contamination could be critical..
The world has the means and technology to produce almost all our energy needs from renewable sources, but this is being hindered and prevented by greedy and powerful oil producers and capitalist world that allows them this power.

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Re: To Frack or not to Frack

Post  cyprussyd on 2016-05-26, 2:24 am

Back to dont know.

I guess at the end of the day it doesn't really matter because N Yorkshire has shown the way forward.

If there are objections they will have a meeting, listen to both sides then do what they want anyway.

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