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Most users ever online was 328 on 2012-09-14, 11:57 am

The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

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in/out/dont know

30% 30% 
[ 3 ]
50% 50% 
[ 5 ]
20% 20% 
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Total Votes : 10

The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  cyprussyd on 2016-02-02, 2:59 pm

We may only be months away from a vote and I am still undecided but swaying towards out, how about YOU

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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  canary-dave on 2016-02-02, 3:02 pm

Whatever it takes to get shot of this crooked government!

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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  oldblackcat on 2016-02-02, 6:22 pm

At this moment in time I would say out........
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Nostalgic on 2016-02-02, 7:16 pm

Our universal benefits system seems to at the bottom of this. Back in the '80s when I lived in Germany many of RAF wives who worked in England became entitled to German unemployment benefit which they took willingly. Not many military, if any, left there now.

The present government seems to be fixated in reducing or stopping benefits don't seem to see that if we leave Europe we could be giving up benefits for those who live and work throughout Europe. By comparison they may not be many but work is work.

Secondly, a friends son worked in Germany for fifteen years and at sixty qualified for a quite substantial German works and old age pension. Will be interesting to see how he will be affected if the Brit government is asked to pay it.

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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Billy D on 2016-02-05, 11:08 am

Out for me.
Most corrupt organisation ever - money grabbing chods.
Plus we coluld tell that scruffy bitch Merkel to eff off.
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Hieronymus on 2016-02-05, 2:24 pm

I am not sure. 

For example, I hear the CEO of Nissan say they would have to reconsider their position on the Sunderland plant if we leave - and think about the devastating consequences this would have on the North East economy if it happened, so I think we must have to stay IN for that alone. I also listen to Farage and the like and think well if they are in favour of something I just have to be against it!  tongue

But I can see the anger in so many people about immigration and about controlling ones own borders, and not being 'ruled' by external lawmakers (although i think these are red herrings personally, built up by the right wing media). But something needs to change and being OUT might help the UK government and citizens to focus on what it is we want our country to BE and to STAND FOR in the future, for ourselves, our children and grandchildren.

Then again, instinctively I feel that being OUT of the EU is not the right choice. For me, the only way to address, if not solve, the huge problems that exist right across the world: terrorism, war, disease, poverty, climate change, environmental damage, etc etc. is if all of us work together, not everyone retreating into their own back yard thinking they can live in splendid isolation and all these problems will just go away. That's not going to happen and we need to be more cooperative, not less.

But there is no doubt the numbers of MEP's, and the EU legislative processes are bloated and need restructuring, as it is not working for the greatly expanded EU as it is now. 

All in all I honestly don't know which way I will vote yet. confused
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  sunderpitt on 2016-02-05, 3:39 pm

The argument for the EU is simple...more trade/jobs and less wars.

But, NATO is what faces off to Russia and that is the USA.

A free trade agreement does not need the EU....to be a member of EU costs several billion a year...so EU not needed.

I reckon the EU benefits rich companies/people....Hence Cameron supporting it. Why does Corbyn? Not sure probably  because of some international socialism principle....not bad in itself especially for East Europeans but working class in the UK have the wages depressed and local services/houses overrun.

I reckon labour needs to embrace white van man rather than mock him...Over 50% now self employed ir in SMES.  

Not hugely against Europe but it seems to be going down a political route which is okay for rich firms/individuals but not good for average UK citizen
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  canary-dave on 2016-02-05, 4:32 pm

In, out, in, out, shake it all about!

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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Mackemneil on 2016-02-05, 6:13 pm

I am an IN, without doubt!. That is not to say that things are perfect because they are not, but, we will never see change from out of it , only from within it. However, to get that change we need a leader that knows how to make it work for our benefit and not the 'dozy git' that is flying around Europe hoping to persuade foreign leaders to give him a few crumbs of comfort in order that we vote to stay in.

Cameron's whole approach to this is flawed. If he genuinely believes in Europe and genuinely wanted to make a difference, then first, he should have set objectives that both provided benefit and improvement to all within the European project as well as identifying those areas that required change to our own benefit. Anyone with a modicum of common sense or negotiating skill knows that you have to 'give to get'.

His whole being and approach to Europe is negative, when was the last time we took the lead on any element of European policy? No, we just stand on the side and throw stones when we don't like it. His whole objective was to placate the right wingers in his party and UKIP, he has achieved neither.

Moreover, he has now brought the whole European debate down to a small almost irrelevant number of trivial issues that he hopes will get support from other countries (not convinced he will get anything yet!!) and allied this important issue to a migrant problem that faces the whole of Europe and not just us.

By linking the benefits issue to both the migration and referendum he has diminished its credibility, because his European counterparts see it as a PR stunt for the referendum rather than a serious issue for debate.

For me the migration issue is a separate issue, a crisis that needs to be resolved in a unified and strategic way across the whole of Europe and beyond.
Being in Europe for economic gain is a no-brainer for me! Do the sceptics really believe that if we opt out, the remaining 27 countries will continue to do business in the same and continue to ask our opinion before making decisions?
The expense of leaving and creating new working relationships will be catastrophic for some of our businesses, development and scientific companies who rely upon huge amounts of European investment.

I hope at some stage someone will talk about these issues, and not just trivia!
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Billy D on 2016-02-05, 6:35 pm

The EU is more corrupt than the old Soviet Union & just like that did, it will eventually fall apart.
Alls it takes is for us to leave & other countries will follow suit - Denmark being a prime example.
Can't wait to see Merkel's face when her empire drops to bits.
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Nostalgic on 2016-02-05, 9:23 pm

Cameron is shifting responsibility for this decision to the people so they will be to blame for taking the wrong move in the future. Making this a referendum instead of a plebiscite means the politician hand are clean. They won't do the same a referendum over capital punishment or other emotive issues claiming they were elected so voted on behalf of all.

Leaving the EU could be a killer for the UK in trading terms if we have to renegotiate trading terms with other Euro countries. Compared to France who buy mainly French products from cars to farm produce and this also applies to Germany. We have nothing but imports from all over the world and without the EU inclusion deals we could be paying more for an awful lot of our routine imports.

Eveyrbody and his dog knows that it is the easy access to benefits and medicine that draws people to the UK but blaming the EU regulations as being at the back of it is too hot a potato for the politicians to handle.

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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2016-02-05, 11:17 pm

Google TPP (The Trans-Pacific Partnership)
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth springs to mind.

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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Nostalgic on 2016-02-06, 2:14 am

Black Cat Kiwi wrote:Google TPP (The Trans-Pacific Partnership)
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth springs to mind.
From the information available about both similar events, we won't know the full impact of both events for years to come. But the crucial point being that the politicos who drove/didn't oppose it will be long gone leaving Joe public tax payer to foot the bill.

Cogs in a big wheel springs to mind also.

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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  barrowmackem on 2016-02-06, 6:16 am

out for me, there will be a price of course or so they tell us but for me control of our borders is paramount, trade with the EU can still go ahead. let people into this country you let in the hidden terrorist who will cause havok eventually when the terrorist arises from unnderground.
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Nostalgic on 2016-02-06, 11:07 pm

Just a random thought about what would be the impact on football on imports from EU if we left. Bosman won his case based on a EU wide law on freedom of employment and movement of labour within EU. We could well lose the right to sign players as easily as we do now.

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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  Mackemneil on 2016-02-07, 10:00 am

barrowmackem wrote:out for me, there will be a price of course or so they tell us but for me control of our borders is paramount, trade with the EU can still go ahead. let people into this country you let in the hidden terrorist who will cause havok eventually when the terrorist arises from unnderground.
Sorry, but all of the terrorist activity that has happened in this country was instigated by people who lived here and in the main were born here and NOT by immigrants!!
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  sunderpitt on 2016-02-07, 12:16 pm

Nostalgic wrote:Just a random thought about what would be the impact on football on imports from EU if we left. Bosman won his case based on a EU wide law on freedom of employment and movement of labour within EU. We could well lose the right to sign players as easily as we do now.

It may be that we end up with more UK players in our teams if all other nationalities are barred
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Re: The EU, IN..OUT..NOT SURE

Post  barrowmackem on 2016-02-09, 10:21 am

Mackemneil wrote:
barrowmackem wrote:out for me, there will be a price of course or so they tell us but for me control of our borders is paramount, trade with the EU can still go ahead. let people into this country you let in the hidden terrorist who will cause havok eventually when the terrorist arises from unnderground.
Sorry, but all of the terrorist activity that has happened in this country was instigated by people who lived here and in the main were born here and NOT by immigrants!!
They will surface Mac give them time.

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