SunderMad
Why not join in with our small but perfectly formed community?

We are always looking for new members so sign up and join in, its free.

SOME PEOPLE SEEM TO HIT A SNAG WHEN TRYING TO REGISTER! NOT SURE WHY? IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM EMAIL ME AND I WILL SORT IT?
sundamad@aol.com
Sky Sports-SunderMad Exclusive.
2017/18

Latest topics
» Mr H will be delighted
Today at 8:23 am by talcnturnip

» Grayson out
Today at 8:02 am by cyprussyd

» Brentford v Sunderland Match day thread
Today at 7:33 am by cyprussyd

» Some good news
Yesterday at 7:42 pm by cyprussyd

» Universal Credit
Yesterday at 7:30 pm by cyprussyd

» Sunderland v Bristol City/Bolton
Yesterday at 7:25 pm by sunderpitt

» word is
Yesterday at 6:51 pm by talcnturnip

» Corbyn in Brussels.
Yesterday at 6:18 pm by Silvers

» Tina anybody?
Yesterday at 2:16 pm by cyprussyd

» Big pants
Yesterday at 1:49 pm by gil t azell

Who is online?
In total there are 11 users online :: 1 Registered, 0 Hidden and 10 Guests :: 1 Bot

Jerry the Jinx

[ View the whole list ]


Most users ever online was 328 on 2012-09-14, 11:57 am

ISIL funding and supply

View previous topic View next topic Go down

ISIL funding and supply

Post  sunderpitt on 2015-11-16, 2:05 pm

I was chatting with a couple of ex-miliary/MI5 friends relatives about how to stop ISIL, they were sceptical that bombing would do much, other than collateral innocent killings and hence recruitment for ISIL. If we are s serious about stopping them, there is a need to stop the funds and military supplies (by the way the hilux trucks they drive around in came from the USA in order for them to fight Assad...this is one mixed up civil war). An article below shows how rich they are and it seems other Midlel East states are happy now to smuggle sell they arms.

FUNDING & RESOURCES
 
Islamic State and the Levant is growing financially and militarily but their greatest financial triumph came in June when they captured Mosul. But how is the group funded and how did their capabilities increase?
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
ISIL militants gathering at an undisclosed location in Iraq's Nineveh province.
 
Isil is the richest terrorist organisation in history.
Over the past six months, since the group began sweeping across eastern [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and into [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], experts estimate that its leaders have gained access to £1.2 billion in cash – more than the most recent recorded annual military expenditure of Ireland.
"Isil is not out in the economic boondocks of Afghanistan or hidden in deserts and caves," said Paul Sullivan, a Middle East specialist at Georgetown University in Washington. "Isil is developing in a vital oil, gas and trade area of the world. It can grab as it expands."
Their greatest financial triumph came when they captured the Iraqi town of Mosul in June and looted the city's banks. Reports at the time suggested the group's fighters may have made off with £240 million, though the Iraqi government later said the heist did not occur.
Five captured oilfields provide up to £1.8 million per day in revenue, with much of the oil smuggled across the border into Turkey and Iran.
They are thought to earn up to £5 million a month through extortion of local businesses. In the past year they are estimated to have made £40 million from taking hostages, with each foreign hostage thought to be worth £3m – although the kidnappers of American journalist James Foley demanded £80 million.
 
 
Private donations from supporters in the Gulf also contribute to their funding – although Saudi Arabia and other Gulf nations have tried to make it harder to do so without government approval. During the war in Afghanistan, Saudi supporters could donate money directly at their mosque with no government supervision.
When they captured Mosul, Iraq's envoy to the UN said they obtained nearly 88lb (40kg) of nuclear material, in the form of low-grade uranium compounds seized from a scientific research facility. The nuclear material would not be easily turned into weapons.
After conquering swaths of western Iraq, Isil fighters also now control territory where 40 per cent of the country's wheat is grown. The group's members are also reportedly milling grain in government silos and selling the flour on the local market.
TACTICS & TARGETS
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Militant Islamist fighters take part in a military parade along the streets of northern Raqqa province
 
Isil's strategy is to capture cities, occupy civilian homes, and expand their vision of a Sunni Islamic state ruled by Sharia law – meaning that it is extremely difficult for a conventional army to launch a counter-attack.
"Isil is not a state where you can hit military bases and infrastructure," said Hussam al-Marie, the Free Syrian Army spokesman for northern Syria. "They are just thugs, groups spread over the east of Syria and the desert."
Instead, military analysts suggest targeting their supply convoys, which travel by road through the desert. The convoys use artillery, tanks and Humvees in big convoys so would be easy to identify.
Key flashpoints at the moment are the towns of Marea and Azaz, north east of Aleppo, where both Syrian government forces and Isil are fighting to take control of the valuable resupply corridor into Syria's second city.
Marea is a stronghold of the Islamic Front, a coalition of Islamist groups that is among those fighting against Isil.
Azaz sits next to the border crossing with Turkey, which would be a valuable asset for the jihadists, and in the past few weeks the fighters have taken control of a string of villager near the two towns.
Their infrastructure targets are thought to include the Haditha dam in northwestern Iraq on the Euphrates River and sections of the 600,000 barrel-a-day pipeline running to Turkey, which hasn't operated since March. The North Fertiliser Plant in Baiji, 130 miles north of Baghdad, which a Texan company won a contract to revamp in 2011, could also fall under their control – as could cement plants in the north.
And once they control an area, they are careful not to repeat the mistakes made by its predecessor, the al-Qaeda-linked Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), in 2003.
Then, ISI seized control of several cities in Iraq as it fought the allied invasion, but it quickly lost them again when locals rebelled against them because their practices were too extreme.
This time Isil has been seeking to win hearts and minds. In the territory it controls, it has been quick to eradicate policies and practices that locals most hated when they were under Baghdad's rule. In Mosul, for example, corruption in public offices and financial institutions was rife.
Isil has since cracked down on officials taking bribes to do their jobs and hired an "army of accountants" to monitor the financial accounts of banks and ensure they are not embezzling funds.
MILITARY MIGHT
Isil is thought to have between 7-12,000 fighters, of whom 3,000 are foreign. A quarter of those are estimated to be British, although Belgium is the largest per-capita European "source" of fighters.
The extremist jihadists are using tanks, howitzers, and armoured personnel carriers seized from Iraqi arms depots in new offensives to wipe out the government's last outposts in north eastern Syria. Weapons seized from Iraq, many originally provided by the US, are now changing the dynamic of the three-year-old struggle in Syria, according to the report by IHS Country Risk.
Experts estimate Isil has about 30 Soviet T-55 tanks and five to 10 Soviet T-72 battle tanks.
They have medium-sized towed artillery pieces, with a range of upwards of 14 miles; SA-7 surface-to-air missiles; BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launchers, and Fim-92 Stinger Manpad shoulder-fired infrared homing surface-to-air missiles.
Defences include ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft guns and M79 Osa, HJ-8 and AT-4 Spigot anti-tank weapons.
Some think they also have a small number of helicopters.
And every fighter reportedly has three sets of M16 rifles and body armour, captured from Syrian and Iraqi government forces.
LEADERSHIP
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
 
Isil is run like a terrorist bureaucracy, with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the self-proclaimed Caliph, at its head.
Born in Samarra, Baghdadi was studying at the University of Islamic Sciences in Baghdad when the US invaded Iraq in March 2003. He was not thought to be connected to either al-Qaeda or its local offshoot in the early years of resistance. But by late 2005 he had been captured as a suspected mid-ranking figure in the anti-US Sunni insurgency, and he later rose to lead al-Qaeda in Iraq before splitting with them to form Isil.
He has since established a team of obedient Islamist mandarins – everything from prisoner management to suicide operations is delegated to his deputies.
"He is rational," said Hisham al-Hashimi, a senior Iraqi researcher senior on Islamic militancy
"He thinks very clearly about what he is doing. He is deeply ideological and committed. He is also very determined to make himself into the one true ruler of Sunni Islam."
At the top is a "cabinet" of experienced military officers.
Abu Ali al-Anbari was a major general in the Iraqi military under Saddam Hussein. Under Baghdadi he is now charged with managing the Syrian territories currently under Isil control.
Another former officer from Saddam's army is Abu Muslim al-Turkmani, who was a lieutenant colonel in military intelligence. The finances of the group's Iraqi provinces are managed by a man calling himself Abu Salah.
Details of the Isil leadership structure were unearthed after documents were captured during a raid on the group's positions in June.
They revealed that a series of other deputies have been assigned to a variety of roles befitting a major terrorist organisation – including the oversight of improvised explosive devices (IEDs) and caring for the families of "martyrs".
Beneath the "cabinet" level there are reportedly approximately 1,000 medium and top-level field commanders. Salaries reportedly range from $300 to $2000 per month depending on the job post.
SOCIAL MEDIA
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
James Foley
 
The fate of James Foley marked a grim "high point" for Isil's social media strategy – the culmination of a macabre form of PR campaign.
The internet is used to both publicise its actions – through YouTube videos, Twitter and Facebook – and also to recruit new members.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], leader of Isil, appeared in a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in July in which he announced at a mosque in Mosul that the organisation was changing its name from Isis to Islamic State, and aimed at controlling a swathe of the Middle East "up to Rome".
The actions of his foot soldiers are also promoted on social media.
Crucifixions are posted on Twitter, mass killings photographed, and foreign jihadis have even pioneered a new type of "selfie" involving the decapitated heads of opponents.

Fighters in the field use sites such as Ask.fm to hold question and answer sessions with those considering travelling to the region – where wannabe soldiers ask "Are the bugs a problem?" and "Can I buy a smartphone there?"
avatar
sunderpitt
Number Cruncher
Number Cruncher

Posts : 6104
Join date : 2012-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: ISIL funding and supply

Post  Hieronymus on 2015-11-16, 5:58 pm

Really interesting read that. I wonder if our military and governments are planning to act on this intelligence? Cutting supply lines has been a tactic in war since the days of the Greeks and the Romans so surely someone has thought of this? BUt cutting off externl finance has to be another approach, especially from wealthy Arab nations. All our diplomatic services should be pressurinsing them to stop funding getting through. 

I read this article below this morning too, which goes some way to explain the attraction of ISIS to young people and how they are working to a defined plan. It is quite frightening to read their philosophy, designed to overthrow western culture.

I agree with the author that Western governments need to stop talking AT kids and start engaging with them properly. In the UK I would also suggest that this austerity government has played its part by ensuring youth services have been cut to the bone, and by implementing policies aimed at either demonising young people as shirkers, or saddling them with debt to get an education, without the promiise of a decent job at the end of it, or the ability to put a roof over their heads. No wonder some young people are attracted to ISIS when they literally promise they will get to Paradise. We definitely need a different approach to this problem, because whatever most governments are doing right now is simply exacerbating the issue.


Mindless terrorists? The truth about Isis is much worse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

They deal in chaos, but they work from a script. The failure to understand that is costing us dear
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ‘There is discernible method in the Isis approach.’ Islamic State fighters in Raqqa. Photograph: AP
Sunday 15 November 2015 21.05 GMT Last modified on Monday 16 November 201513.14 GMT


It’s “the first of the storm”, says [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. And little wonder. For the chaotic scenes on the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and the fearful reaction those attacks provoked are precisely what Isis planned and prayed for. The greater the reaction against Muslims in Europe and the deeper the west becomes involved in military action in the Middle East, the happier Isis leaders will be. Because this is about the organisation’s key strategy: finding, creating and managing chaos.

There is a playbook, a manifesto: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], a tract written more than a decade ago under the name Abu Bakr Naji, for the Mesopotamian wing of al-Qaida that would become Isis. Think of the horror of Paris and then consider these, its principal axioms. 

Hit soft targets. “Diversify and widen the vexation strikes against the crusader-Zionist enemy in every place in the Islamic world, and even outside of it if possible, so as to disperse the efforts of the alliance of the enemy and thus drain it to the greatest extent possible.”

Strike when potential victims have their guard down. Sow fear in general populations, damage economies. “If a tourist resort that the crusaders patronise … is hit, all of the tourist resorts in all of the states of the world will have to be secured by the work of additional forces, which are double the ordinary amount, and a huge increase in spending.”

Consider reports suggesting a 15-year-old was involved in Friday’s atrocity. “Capture the rebelliousness of youth, their energy and idealism, and their readiness for self-sacrifice, while fools preach ‘moderation’ (wasatiyyah), security and avoidance of risk.”

Think of the group’s appreciation of focus on cause and effect: “Work to expose the weakness of America’s centralised power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and the war by proxy until it fights directly.” Ditto for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], the UK and other allies.

There is a recruitment framework. The Grey Zone, a 10-page editorial in Isis’s online magazine [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in early 2015, describes the twilight area occupied by most Muslims between good and evil, the caliphate and the infidel, which the “blessed operations of September 11” brought into relief. Quoting Bin Laden it said: “The world today is divided. Bush spoke the truth when he said, ‘Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists’, with the actual ‘terrorist’ being the western crusaders.” Now, it said, “the time had come for another event to … bring division to the world and destroy the grey zone”. 

The attacks in Paris were the latest instalment of this strategy, targeting Europe, as did the recent attacks in Turkey. There will be more, much more, to come. With that in mind, it is critical that we understand what is really going on.

Radical Arab Sunni revivalism, which Isis now spearheads, is a dynamic, revolutionary countercultural movement of world historic proportions, with the largest and most diverse volunteer fighting force since the second world war. In less than two years, it has created a dominion over hundreds of thousands of square kilometres and millions of people. Despite being attacked on all sides by internal and external foes, it has not been degraded to any appreciable degree, while rooting ever stronger in areas it controls and expanding its influence in deepening pockets throughout Eurasia.

Simply treating Isis as a form of “terrorism” or “violent extremism” masks the menace. Merely dismissing it as “nihilistic” reflects a wilful and dangerous avoidance of trying to comprehend, and deal with, its profoundly alluring moral mission to change and save the world. And the constant refrain that Isis seeks to turn back history to the Middle Ages is no more compelling than a claim that the Tea Party movement wants everything the way it was in 1776. The truth is more complicated. As Abu Mousa, Isis’s press officer in Raqqa, put it: “We are not sending people back to the time of the carrier pigeon. On the contrary, we will benefit from development. But in a way that doesn’t contradict the religion.”

Isis is reaching out to fill the void wherever a state of “chaos” or “savagery” (at-tawahoush) exists, as in central Asia and Africa. And where there is insufficient chaos in the lands of the infidel, called “The House of War”, it seeks to create it, as in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

It conscientiously exploits the disheartening dynamic between the rise of radical Islamism and the revival of the xenophobic ethno-nationalist movements that are beginning to seriously undermine the middle class – the mainstay of stability and democracy – in Europe in ways reminiscent of the hatchet job that the communists and fascists did on European democracy in the 1920s and 30s. The fact that Europe’s reproductive rate is 1.4 children per couple, and so there needs to be considerable immigration to maintain a productive workforce that can sustain the middle class standard of living, is a godsend for Isis, because at the same time there has never been less tolerance for immigration. Therein lies the sort of chaos that Isis is well positioned to exploit.

As I testified to the US Senate armed service committee and before the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: what inspires the most uncompromisingly lethal actors in the world today is not so much the Qur’an or religious teachings. It’s a thrilling cause that promises glory and esteem. Jihad is an egalitarian, equal-opportunity employer: fraternal, fast-breaking, glorious, cool – and persuasive.

A July 2014 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]suggested that more than one in four French youth between the ages of 18 and 24 have a favourable or very favourable opinion of Isis, although only 7-8% of France is Muslim. It’s communal. More than three of every four who join Isis from abroad do so with friends and family. Most are young, in transitional stages in life: immigrants, students, between jobs and mates, having just left their native family. They join a “band of brothers (and sisters)” ready to sacrifice for significance.

We have “counter-narratives”, unappealing and unsuccessful. Mostly negative, they rely on mass messaging at youth rather than intimate dialogue. As one former Isis imam told us: “The young who came to us were not to be lectured at like witless children; they are for the most part understanding and compassionate, but misguided.” Again, there is discernible method in the Isis approach. Eager to recruit, the group may spend hundreds of hours trying to enlist a single individual, to learn how their personal problems and grievances fit into a universal theme of persecution against all Muslims.

Current counter-radicalisation approaches lack the mainly positive, empowering appeal and sweep of Isis’s story of the world; and the personalised and intimate approach to individuals across the world.

The first step to combating Isis is to understand it. We have yet to do so. That failure costs us dear.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
avatar
Hieronymus
Admin Problem Solver
Admin Problem Solver

Posts : 8434
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 61

Back to top Go down

Re: ISIL funding and supply

Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2015-11-16, 10:26 pm

Firstly H, I didn't bother reading it all sorry as I'm just not up to it lately with other things.

BUT if you want more info try Googling how much Toyota has made out of the conflict. Record sales  pale

________________________________________________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]                         [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
                                
avatar
Black Cat Kiwi
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 9366
Join date : 2012-08-01
Age : 99
Location : Godzone

Back to top Go down

Re: ISIL funding and supply

Post  sunderpitt on 2015-11-16, 10:30 pm

Black Cat Kiwi wrote:Firstly H, I didn't bother reading it all sorry as I'm just not up to it lately with other things.

BUT if you want more info try Googling how much Toyota has made out of the conflict. Record sales  pale
 Yep the yanks supplied lots of Isil's arm and cos they have lots of money the world and his wife are selling them everything else.
avatar
sunderpitt
Number Cruncher
Number Cruncher

Posts : 6104
Join date : 2012-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: ISIL funding and supply

Post  cyprussyd on 2015-11-17, 5:46 am

I dont agree with all of Corbyns views but it saddens me to see his every comment twisted and condemned as the rantings of a silly man.
 
We face an enemy none of us understand fully and one our political leaders  are struggling with, far better to listen and debate all views than simply write some off.

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 42429
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 69
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: ISIL funding and supply

Post  Hieronymus on 2015-11-17, 12:03 pm

cyprussyd wrote:I dont agree with all of Corbyns views but it saddens me to see his every comment twisted and condemned as the rantings of a silly man.
 
We face an enemy none of us understand fully and one our political leaders  are struggling with, far better to listen and debate all views than simply write some off.
Yes, exactly. He is interviewed and honestly puts his views forward with no sound bites, no spin. He feels anyone accused of terrorism and other crimes ought to be tried in a court rather than assassinated by state sanctioned remote drone strikes. Furthermore he suggests he is not happy with an active 'shoot to kill' policy on the streets of the UK. Then he is crucified for it! 

Well I am not happy with drone strikes targeting anyone either, as there will always be collateral damage. That is a bland phrase for dead civilians, innocent women and children almost certainly, being blown to pieces, their body parts scattered to the four winds. The target may be gone, but at what cost in terms of generating more hate and resentment and providing more recruits to the ISIL cause? I appreciate the case of 'Jihadi John' was unique and a difficult one, and capturing him was unlikely, if not impossible. But, if state sanctioned assassination becomes the norm, we become no better than those we fight. 

Also, like Jeremy. I don't agree with a blanket 'shoot to kill' policy on our streets. Yes, if there is immediate threat to life and no other option to save innocent people, then the shot should be taken. I realise that decision has to be taken in a split second and it is not an easy one. But is it that much harder for a marksman to put a bullet in the shoulder or leg to incapacitate the target? Suicide bombers want to die, so should we really help them on their way? 

My view is it serves our cause, and democracy, better to capture, arrest and charge them, then put them on trial so they can be shown to the world what they are; pathetic examples of human beings, not special; not the chosen; just foolish young men and women, brainwashed into thinking they could become gods. I want them alive so they know they will never get to the Paradise they were promised. I want them to learn how they were tricked by those who never put their own lives on the line. That they were created as cannon fodder for our guns and missiles and as a crude recruitment tool. 

Finally. and most importantly, I want to be 100% certain that anyone killed, in my name, by UK police, military or secret service, has actually done something to deserve it. Has everyone forgotten Jean Charles de Menezes? 

Others may not agree with Jeremy and I, and they have that right, but we too have the right to believe that hate and war and death and killing only make the problem worse. Somehow the cycle has to be broken. And if people who agree with Jeremy and I are vilified for our beliefs, then perhaps we have already lost this war. Crying or Very sad
avatar
Hieronymus
Admin Problem Solver
Admin Problem Solver

Posts : 8434
Join date : 2012-08-07
Age : 61

Back to top Go down

Re: ISIL funding and supply

Post  sunderpitt on 2015-11-17, 1:46 pm

My own view for what it is worth, which is unfortunate for humanity, is that 'mad dogs' have to be put down, the question is how do you do that. 

Having said that I fail to see that bombing will help that much...yes if ISIL is out in the open, or supplies coming in, or blowing up oil fields where they get funding from can help. Most of the people In Raqqa, few hundred thousand, do not want murdering scum in their city taking over their houses and raping women and killing men. Similarly for Mosul (which has a few million people living there) carpet bombing citiies whilst perhaps appeasing some sections of the population at home, will just add to those supporting ISIL.

It would be better if those sunni/shite/kurds against ISIL were armed and organised to move into the cities and shoot the swaggering thugs, if they move out of the cities we can bomb/drone them. At one time we (USA France and us) were against Assad and were arming (ISIL) to fight against him...now it would seems we want Assad (plus the Russians do not forget) to defeat ISIL.

Getting Iraq's government to include all its peoples factions and getting  the arabs forces united against ISIL plus western air support has to be a way forward and yes Assad has to go at some point , he did after all gas his own people, which is just about as bad as ISIL is doing.

As for Jazza, I just think he is out of his depth, all his life he has been on the fringes saying and doing things that he firmly believed in (and nobody took any notice...lunatic fringe), now he is in the centre of events some of the issues he firmly believes in are not so easy when faced with political reality and tough choices. As Barbara Castle once chided her old pal, Michael Foot, he’s “grown soft on a diet of soft options,” not quite a pacifist (so he says) but opposed to passing wars and the legitimacy of force in a harsh world.

My for instance on this principle versus practice,  I could not condone abortion, especially when my own kids were born and their early scan pictures of them are in albums. However later on I became involved in running some teenage hostels for young mums and seeing very young woman being shellshocked having a baby put into their arms when they were just not capable of being 'mums'  changed my mind, especially seeing who some of the fathers were. Perhaps Corbyn is having to have a lot of road to Damascus moments...
avatar
sunderpitt
Number Cruncher
Number Cruncher

Posts : 6104
Join date : 2012-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: ISIL funding and supply

Post  cyprussyd on 2015-11-17, 3:34 pm

sunderpitt wrote:My own view for what it is worth, which is unfortunate for humanity, is that 'mad dogs' have to be put down, the question is how do you do that. 

Having said that I fail to see that bombing will help that much...yes if ISIL is out in the open, or supplies coming in, or blowing up oil fields where they get funding from can help. Most of the people In Raqqa, few hundred thousand, do not want murdering scum in their city taking over their houses and raping women and killing men. Similarly for Mosul (which has a few million people living there) carpet bombing citiies whilst perhaps appeasing some sections of the population at home, will just add to those supporting ISIL.

It would be better if those sunni/shite/kurds against ISIL were armed and organised to move into the cities and shoot the swaggering thugs, if they move out of the cities we can bomb/drone them. At one time we (USA France and us) were against Assad and were arming (ISIL) to fight against him...now it would seems we want Assad (plus the Russians do not forget) to defeat ISIL.

Getting Iraq's government to include all its peoples factions and getting  the arabs forces united against ISIL plus western air support has to be a way forward and yes Assad has to go at some point , he did after all gas his own people, which is just about as bad as ISIL is doing.

As for Jazza, I just think he is out of his depth, all his life he has been on the fringes saying and doing things that he firmly believed in (and nobody took any notice...lunatic fringe), now he is in the centre of events some of the issues he firmly believes in are not so easy when faced with political reality and tough choices. As Barbara Castle once chided her old pal, Michael Foot, he’s “grown soft on a diet of soft options,” not quite a pacifist (so he says) but opposed to passing wars and the legitimacy of force in a harsh world.

My for instance on this principle versus practice,  I could not condone abortion, especially when my own kids were born and their early scan pictures of them are in albums. However later on I became involved in running some teenage hostels for young mums and seeing very young woman being shellshocked having a baby put into their arms when they were just not capable of being 'mums'  changed my mind, especially seeing who some of the fathers were. Perhaps Corbyn is having to have a lot of road to Damascus moments...
And maybe there we have my problem, its relatively easy for me to talk about immigrants and war, in Coxhoe we see little of either.

Its easy for me to decide on the rights and wrongs of bombing or not and to even pick the winning formula for Sunderland, my opinion counts for no more than an opinion.

Cameron is far from my favourite politician but I don't envy in any way the pressure on him or Corbyn who is being hounded by everyone.

________________________________________________________
          My glass is always half full and occasionally over flowing. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
cyprussyd
Senior Member(Top Cat)
Senior Member(Top Cat)

Posts : 42429
Join date : 2012-07-31
Age : 69
Location : Durham

http://www.sunderlandmad.com

Back to top Go down

Re: ISIL funding and supply

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum