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Post  cyprussyd on 2015-03-27, 7:13 am

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The world will condemn this man and I understand why, many innocent lives lost in an awful way because of his actions it would seem.
There can never be any justification for what he seems to have done but, it may be unpopular but, spare a thought for him and his family. What state of mind must he have been in to do what he did? And his family have lost a man they love but will get no sympathy but they have done nothing wrong.
We need someone to blame and I get that and yes it seems this man was to blame but, that seems an easy get out for me, I would ask why, lots of why's.
Mental health is a scourge and one so many people still dont understand.

Of course its still early and we are not sure of what happened, will we ever know?

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Post  canary-dave on 2015-03-27, 8:40 am

cyprussyd wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The world will condemn this man and I understand why, many innocent lives lost in an awful way because of his actions it would seem.
There can never be any justification for what he seems to have done but, it may be unpopular but, spare a thought for him and his family. What state of mind must he have been in to do what he did? And his family have lost a man they love but will get no sympathy but they have done nothing wrong.
We need someone to blame and I get that and yes it seems this man was to blame but, that seems an easy get out for me, I would ask why, lots of why's.
Mental health is a scourge and one so many people still dont understand.

Of course its still early and we are not sure of what happened, will we ever know?

Having read about him yesterday, my one concern would be why was there a 6 month break in the middle of his training? Were there any clues there towards this horrific outcome?

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Post  Hieronymus on 2015-03-27, 12:18 pm

This is a desperately sad story and the tragic outcome will be discussed and dissected for years. Apparently he crashed into the mountains where he went gliding as a youngster, when he first learned to fly. Maybe where he felt he was happiest.

I can hardly bear to think about the depths of despair he must have been feeling, especially what drove him to take 149 others with him. 

But imagine you are a young man who, on the surface, has everything to live for. A young man who loves to fly and who has his dream job. 

Imagine how you would maybe try to keep your depression a secret, knowing you will be stopped from doing the one thing that fulfils you, if you are honest and admit how you feel.  

Imagine how you would try to hide your illness from everyone, maybe even yourself. 

Imagine how you would learn how to pass the psychological tests required for your job, and act the part of a 'normal' person, so none of your family, friends and colleagues would suspect.

Imagine when it becomes clear to you, in the depths of your mental illness, that the world is a terrible place and you would be better off dead.

Imagine that finally one day, after all this pretence and deceit, the pressure can be borne no longer, and all rationality and ability to think of consequences, is lost.

Imagine being in the position to act on those dreadful feelings of despair.

Imagine that  Crying or Very sad
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Post  cyprussyd on 2015-03-27, 12:33 pm

Hieronymus wrote:This is a desperately sad story and the tragic outcome will be discussed and dissected for years. Apparently he crashed into the mountains where he went gliding as a youngster, when he first learned to fly. Maybe where he felt he was happiest.

I can hardly bear to think about the depths of despair he must have been feeling, especially what drove him to take 149 others with him. 

But imagine you are a young man who, on the surface, has everything to live for. A young man who loves to fly and who has his dream job. 

Imagine how you would maybe try to keep your depression a secret, knowing you will be stopped from doing the one thing that fulfils you, if you are honest and admit how you feel.  

Imagine how you would try to hide your illness from everyone, maybe even yourself. 

Imagine how you would learn how to pass the psychological tests required for your job, and act the part of a 'normal' person, so none of your family, friends and colleagues would suspect.

Imagine when it becomes clear to you, in the depths of your mental illness, that the world is a terrible place and you would be better off dead.

Imagine that finally one day, after all this pretence and deceit, the pressure can be borne no longer, and all rationality and ability to think of consequences, is lost.

Imagine being in the position to act on those dreadful feelings of despair.

Imagine that  Crying or Very sad
APPL APPL APPL APPL

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Post  Guest on 2015-03-27, 12:44 pm

Imagine you were one of the 16 school children coming back from a trip and somebody who you did not know decides you have to die  because he feels rotten. ....imagine that...imagine you are the parent of one of the 16 children...imagine that
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Post  Hieronymus on 2015-03-27, 1:15 pm

sunderpitt wrote:Imagine you were one of the 16 school children coming back from a trip and somebody who you did not know decides you have to die  because he feels rotten. ....imagine that...imagine you are the parent of one of the 16 children...imagine that
Yes indeed. My sorrow for the perpetrator does not mean I have forgotten the truly innocent victims, including their distraught families, affected by this terrible tragedy. Believe me, I walk in their shoes and feel their pain.  Crying or Very sad
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Post  Guest on 2015-03-27, 1:55 pm

Hieronymus wrote:
sunderpitt wrote:Imagine you were one of the 16 school children coming back from a trip and somebody who you did not know decides you have to die  because he feels rotten. ....imagine that...imagine you are the parent of one of the 16 children...imagine that
Yes indeed. My sorrow for the perpetrator does not mean I have forgotten the truly innocent victims, including their distraught families, affected by this terrible tragedy. Believe me, I walk in their shoes and feel their pain.  Crying or Very sad

My wife and I had tears in our eyes as we watched the headmaster of the school 'well up' as he tried to face the media yesterday.

I once had to go and talk to a film crew who wanted permission to use the school I was involved with for a video about how children should take care on the way home from school. I sat and chatted with Milly Dowler's parents for about half-an-hour...I was very upset and emotional driving back towards home...I knew nobody was in at my house so I went to a fellow governors house and she plied me with a couple of stiff scotch's. To see the grief and pain on Milly's parents faces is something I will never forget.

Do I understand that this pilot had depression yes, following the death of my father when I was in my early 20s I was somewhat depressed for a while, in fact as I understand it  at least 1 in 3 folk will suffer from it sometime in their life. Just as suicide may be regarded as somewhat selfish, I have seen the devastation it causes to the family and friends left behind. What I cannot get my head round is that this evil b*****d felt it would be good to show his pain by killing 149 other people, men woman and children. We are quick enough to condemn suicide bombers (who may well have been manipulated by others...) but this man wilfully hid his illness, deliberately not seeking help choosing to sacrifice others...unforgivable.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2015-03-27, 2:14 pm

Sunders I dont think anyone is asking for forgiveness, indeed it is unforgivable but I honestly think that mental illness is not a period of depression following a loss.

All I am saying is that rather than demonise the pilot we, or more to the point the powers that be. need to understand mental illness so that they can try and prevent it happening again.

The loss of life of all, not just the children but all passengers is sad beyond words and I am certainly not looking to excuse the pilot, there is no excuse but, after the emotions subside lessons must be learned.

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Post  Guest on 2015-03-27, 2:27 pm

The posts so far about this tragic and sad event express most of the feelings that famiies and friends of both those lost and the co-pilot who willfully flew his aircraft into a mountain. I cannot add to what previous posters have so caringly and thoughtfully said but I do have one question that has not yet been asked although it is early days in the inquiry. My question concerns the airline's statement yesterday about their procedures relating to the health, mental or otherwise, of the co-pilot. It emerges today that police have found evidence that the co-pilot had depression problems so it would seem that a doctor somewhere had diagnosed the problem. Lufthansa say that all was well with him so how good are their procedures and doctors and do the airline dig deep enough?
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Post  cyprussyd on 2015-03-27, 2:33 pm

And thats the question that needs answering Les, they have now found sick notes for the day of the flight, torn up.

If its found that he is more evil than sick someone wrote the sick note, someone knew he was unwell and some system needs putting in. In the words of one expert on the news, "Lots of work has been done to check planes and passengers, now its time for better checks on staff", one sick pilot can and it seems has murdered many.

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Post  Guest on 2015-03-27, 2:36 pm

I thought that too.

Counsellors have a 'duty of care' if they think someone will come to harm; so am surprised that the doctor in question did not have similar guidelines. Then again it is a different country to us.
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Post  cyprussyd on 2015-03-27, 3:02 pm

New Statesman New Statesman

Shock news: contra to this morning's headlines, people with depression have jobs
With 1 in 4 people in Britain suffering a mental illness in any given year, it's obvious many of them hold down jobs and responsibilities. So why are the headlines today so insensitive and unhelpful?


BY STEPHANIE BOLAND PUBLISHED 27 MARCH, 2015 - 10:16

Will we ever get through a story on mental health without the front pages making me imitate Munch’s The Scream in the newsagent’s? It’s looking increasingly unlikely – and frankly, I’m starting to worry everyone in the Whitechapel Londis.

Take this morning, for instance. Yesterday, a press conference shared the news that the co-pilot in the Germanwings crash may have brought the plane down intentionally. Furthermore, it’s been revealed that he had a history of depression, at one point taking a break from his training.

In terms of “topics you might want to cover a bit sensitively”, this one ranks pretty high. But the front pages this morning have admirably stuck to their line of being as awful as possible.


The Daily Mail in particular looks like their reporters scanned the Samaritans guidelines, went “challenge accepted”, and then proceeded to see how many suggestions they could contravene in one go. The guidelines urge journalists to be sensitive when reporting on mental health, reminding them that their writing “might have an effect on vulnerable individuals”. They also advise that stories steer clear of drama or over-simplification.



This is probably not a good idea



In a statement this morning, mental health charity Mind helpfully jogged the press’ collective memory re: their obligations:

Clearly assessment of all pilots’ physical and mental health is entirely appropriate - but assumptions about risk shouldn't  be made across the board for people with depression, or any other illness. There will be pilots with experience of depression who have flown safely for decades  and assessments should be made on a case by case basis.

Today’s headlines risk adding to the stigma surrounding mental health problems, which millions of people experience each year, and we would encourage the media to report this issue responsibly.

The statement reminds us that the front pages today aren’t just insensitive: they also make little sense. Look, I won’t speculate on what might be behind the Germanwing pilot’s actions, because like these papers I don’t actually know yet. But what I do know is that asking in massive bold font why someone with a history of depression was allowed to have their job is misleading and ridiculous.

If we followed the Mail’s logic, the economy would be screwed. Because people with mental illnesses hold down jobs all the time. According to the Mental Health Foundation, 1 in 4 British adults experience a diagnosable mental health problem in any one year. As prescient commenters were quick to point out, it’s statistically likely that the paper has a number of people on staff who suffer from one. All over the world, people with mental health problems manae to work reliably in important jobs: as doctors and nurses, in the police, as firefighters, as politicians.

The truth is, most of us rely on people with depression all throughout our everyday lives – in the vast majority of cases, we don’t even spot it. What must it be like to go through the world outraged by this? Are these folks kept awake at night by the fact that people with depression sometimes drive cars with passengers in? How do they deal with the clinically depressed having children? (Actually, don’t answer that, I’d really rather not know.)

The Daily Mail story begins by narrating the pilot’s “’burnout’” and history of depression, before writing that “incredibly, he passed all his psychological assessments”. Aside from how outrageously incorrect the use of “incredibly” here is – the thing clearly happened -  the suggestion that it’s impossible for someone with previous psychological problems to later be mentally well is naive and insulting. Again, people recover from depression all the time; going on to barely think about their illness.

Suggesting otherwise is – and here I refer again to the Samaritan guidelines – something likely to discourage vulnerable individuals. Given that one of the key symptoms of depression is feeling hopeless, an article that opens with the inference there’s no hope of recovery is what we in the trade call “totally f*cking unhelpful”.

Because those of us who live with depression – our own, or our loved ones’ – know only too well what a headline like this does. On their way to work this morning, thousands of people who suffer from a disease whose symptoms include feelings of worthlessless and lack of confidence will have passed a headline that implies they oughn’t to be allowed certain jobs. To be fair, you’ve got to hand it to the Mail sub-editors: 16 words is a pretty efficient length in which to kick people while they’re down.

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Post  Guest on 2015-03-27, 3:15 pm

Whilst I do not withdraw the sentiments I made about about the mass killer above...Churchill suffered from what was called 'black dog', he did okay as a war time leader. Blairs' pressman Alistair Campbell is a know sufferer from depression and he was superb at his job(he had to be), it is a very common illness and a majority of folk will endure it sometime in their lives. So yes it is wrong to stigmatise it, but given that, it is not an excuse or necessarily even reason why the pilot killed so many people.
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Post  Black Cat Kiwi on 2015-03-28, 2:43 am

Sad sad sad story.

Mental Health affects many with some having the strength to cope while many don't.

God bless those under paid wonderfully caring soles whom tirelessly try to help others.

As one whom lives on the edge with a sick family member I can only but wish that those affected are able in time to move forward & find a way out of the dark.

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Post  Guest on 2015-03-28, 1:43 pm

What do they do with mad dogs?
Put them down.
Simple answer isn't it?
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Post  Guest on 2015-03-28, 4:25 pm

How are YOU feeling Billy?
Always cool,  calm and collected ?
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Post  Nostalgic on 2015-03-28, 8:36 pm

If the news coming out about him is accurate he is cool calm and collected and went about this event about this in a very precise way. The hardest part is that he could have waited a week or too and done it with a solo glider effort.
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Post  Jerry the Jinx on 2015-03-28, 9:07 pm

silvers wrote:How are YOU feeling Billy?
Always cool,  calm and collected ?
Ah Silvers........you've obviously never met Billy..........................
There's lots of words I'd use to describe him but cool. calm and collected..............................ooohh that's stretching it

The trouble is, no matter how much sympathy you feel for the co-pilot, he took 149(?) innocent people with him
That is very hard to reconcile no matter what.
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Post  Guest on 2015-03-28, 9:12 pm

Jerry the Jinx wrote:
silvers wrote:How are YOU feeling Billy?
Always cool,  calm and collected ?
Ah Silvers........you've obviously never met Billy..........................
There's lots of words I'd use to describe him but cool. calm and collected..............................ooohh that's stretching it

The trouble is, no matter how much sympathy you feel for the co-pilot, he took 149(?) innocent people with him
That is very hard to reconcile no matter what.
Jerry you have the right of it.

The problem that does arise as senior management points out is that fewer folk who are ill will want to come forth for treatment
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Post  cyprussyd on 2015-03-28, 9:18 pm

sunderpitt wrote:
Jerry the Jinx wrote:
silvers wrote:How are YOU feeling Billy?
Always cool,  calm and collected ?
Ah Silvers........you've obviously never met Billy..........................
There's lots of words I'd use to describe him but cool. calm and collected..............................ooohh that's stretching it

The trouble is, no matter how much sympathy you feel for the co-pilot, he took 149(?) innocent people with him
That is very hard to reconcile no matter what.
Jerry you have the right of it.

The problem that does arise as senior management points out is that fewer folk who are ill will want to come forth for treatment
And thats the problem, it has nothing to do with sympathy for the pilot, you cant have sympathy for anyone who kills that many people.
My concern is for mental illness in many ways and my fear is that stigmatising the illness, if fit was indeed the illness that was behind the act, it may well not be, but stigmatising can have a serious affect on people who suffer it and if they hide it, how can we start and safeguard against this happening again.

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Post  Guest on 2015-03-28, 9:25 pm

Jerry the Jinx wrote:
silvers wrote:How are YOU feeling Billy?
Always cool,  calm and collected ?
Ah Silvers........you've obviously never met Billy..........................
There's lots of words I'd use to describe him but cool. calm and collected..............................ooohh that's stretching it

The trouble is, no matter how much sympathy you feel for the co-pilot, he took 149(?) innocent people with him
That is very hard to reconcile no matter what.


Ah, but to quote the post "put them down" ..

That's what the Nazis were doing in the 1930s. It was genocide of the mentally ill, not just the Jews.

... and what constitutes 'mentally ill' ?    It's a tremendously wide spectrum.
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Post  Jerry the Jinx on 2015-03-28, 9:32 pm

silvers wrote:
Jerry the Jinx wrote:
silvers wrote:How are YOU feeling Billy?
Always cool,  calm and collected ?
Ah Silvers........you've obviously never met Billy..........................
There's lots of words I'd use to describe him but cool. calm and collected..............................ooohh that's stretching it

The trouble is, no matter how much sympathy you feel for the co-pilot, he took 149(?) innocent people with him
That is very hard to reconcile no matter what.


Ah, but to quote the post "put them down" ..

That's what the Nazis were doing in the 1930s. It was genocide of the mentally ill, not just the Jews.

... and what constitutes 'mentally ill' ?    It's a tremendously wide spectrum.
It is indeed, and as far as I'm aware, there's been no verification that the co-pilot was mentally ill
I guess what I was trying to say is that whatever reason the co-pilot had for crashing the plane, and whatever sympathy you might feel for him for doing it.
The fact he took so many innocent people with him is hard to comprehend.
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Post  Guest on 2015-03-28, 9:51 pm

That's it in a nutshell ... incomprehensible ...
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Post  cyprussyd on 2015-03-30, 6:32 pm

How on earth does a man who is being treated for suicidal tendencies get to fly a plane?

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Post  canary-dave on 2015-03-30, 6:46 pm

cyprussyd wrote:How on earth does a man who is being treated for suicidal tendencies get to fly a plane?

I guess they never will again, but it was a very costly lesson!

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